A Champion's Journey
A Champion's Journey
From Last Place to Silver Medal: The Comeback Kids of Next Gen Dynamics
Ever wonder what it takes to become a world-class athlete before you can even drive? Emma Johnson and Gabriel Heller, the silver medalists at the Fifth FAI World Indoor Skydiving Championships in Belgium, reveal exactly how they pulled it off at just 14 and 12 years old.
These extraordinary young competitors take us into the exhilarating world of dynamic two-way indoor skydiving, where they race through wind tunnels at breathtaking speeds while executing precisely choreographed patterns. With remarkable maturity, they describe their journey from last place after the first round to claiming silver on the world stage, demonstrating resilience rarely seen in competitors three times their age.
What's truly fascinating is how they've balanced competitive flying with their education. While Gabriel maintains excellent grades at his private Christian school and plays basketball, Emma has been accepted into an early college program. Their time management strategies alone offer valuable lessons for anyone juggling multiple priorities.
The duo shares intimate details of their mental preparation, from visualization techniques to managing pre-competition nerves. Their coach's advice to "get comfortable being uncomfortable" has become their mantra, pushing them to continually expand their capabilities. They also explain how they've overcome communication challenges and learned to harmonize their different flying preferences – Gabriel's love of speed versus Emma's artistic inclinations.
Beyond their athletic achievements, Emma and Gabriel serve as ambassadors for Children of Fallen Heroes, a charity supporting kids who've lost parents in military service or as first responders. Their perspective on competition – where they'll help opponents understand rule infractions because "you want to make it a fair playing field" – reveals character far beyond their years.
Want to learn how two teenagers conquered the skydiving world while most kids their age are playing video games? This episode will inspire you to push beyond your own perceived limitations, regardless of your age or chosen pursuit.
Welcome to a Champion's Journey podcast. I'm Matt Davidson. From an early age, I've had the privilege of learning from world champions and world-class performers, and I've always been fascinated by what drives them to the pinnacle of achievement to the pinnacle of achievement. In this podcast, I'll interview high performers to learn more about the habits, rituals, tactics and strategies which have aided them throughout the course of their journeys, so that we can take those lessons and apply them to ours. The mission of a Champion's Journey podcast is to interview not only those who have stood on the top podium in arenas of high-level competition, but to learn from those who have conquered life's greatest challenges and have dared to live life on their own terms. I'd like to welcome my next guests, Emma Johnson and Gabriel Heller, the powerhouse duo which makes up NextGen Dynamics. Welcome to the podcast, guys.
Speaker 2:Hello.
Speaker 1:Did I pronounce your name right?
Speaker 2:Yes, all right, cool.
Speaker 1:This is a real treat for me me, as both of you are by far the youngest guests I've had on the show. But even at such young ages, both of you have inspiring and extraordinary stories to tell. So we'll get started by. I'd like you to describe exactly what you do. What is two-way dynamic?
Speaker 3:Two-way dynamic is a discipline in indoor skydiving, with two flyers who do speed lines and a free routine. With the speed lines, you have to do three moves that are randomly picked and you do it three times and the goal is to be as fast as you can without making any mistakes or busting. The free routine is a routine that you get to pick whatever you want to do and be creative with it.
Speaker 1:Very cool, and is that how you would describe it as well?
Speaker 2:I like to describe it more like racing. Like you have your sidelines and your center line, which are like the boundaries for the racetrack, and you have to go as fast as possible without crossing those the boundaries for the racetrack, and you have to go as fast as possible without crossing those. And then the free routine, which is you do what you want to impress the judges the most on a certain round is more like ice skating yeah, very cool.
Speaker 1:So you guys, did you guys come up with a free routine on your own, or did you use a coach to do that?
Speaker 2:we got help from uh mike sofka out at virginia beach. I fly. He's super nice guy very cool.
Speaker 1:So he helped you design the routine and, uh, how much input did you guys have into that?
Speaker 2:for the uh, actually moves we had. He gave us like options and asked us we want to change anything and all that, but he like the um bones of the thing and let us like build it nice, that's very cool.
Speaker 1:So you have some, some ownership in what you're and what you're doing in your routine um congratulations on your recent silver medal finish at the fifth fai world indoor skydiving championships in belgium thank you yeah, uh, if I'm not mistaken, this was your first world championships, right? Yes, man, that must have been awesome. Uh, and was this the first time championships, right?
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm, yes, man, that must have been awesome, and was this the first time that you've traveled internationally? We went to.
Speaker 2:Wynn Games earlier this year just to see how it was competing internationally. Yeah, that definitely helped a lot, because whenever we went to Spain at the Wynn Games it was a terrible sleep schedule, all that bad stuff with traveling internationally.
Speaker 1:We were prepared for that in belgium, so the experience definitely helped us nice, that's cool, that's uh, that's awesome when you can have a meet like that and learn some valuable lessons so that you went, when you get to the, to the really big show that you're well prepared. Uh, I'm thinking back to how excited I was during my first world championships. It was an incredible experience. Can you guys describe what that experience was like for you?
Speaker 3:It was really nice being able to just meet a bunch of new flyers that are really good and getting just more experience competing, learning to do things from watching others compete.
Speaker 1:And what about you?
Speaker 2:I enjoyed making a bunch of friends and getting the experience to compete. Also getting to have a genuine community, because at nationals there wasn't anyone in our discipline to it and in junior, so when we went there there was like five other teams. Super nice getting to meet people from other countries, learning new cultures and all that nice.
Speaker 1:So you guys get to find some commonalities with the uh, the different teams from the different nations and make some friends there it sounded like you guys made made some friends while you were there with the Czech team.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Valerie, Nice, that's awesome. Yeah, world meets for me are exactly like that. You know the friends that you make. If you stay in the sport long enough, it becomes almost like a family reunion and it's just really cool to, you know, see those friends again and make new ones. Yeah, so I'm excited to hear that you guys are staying together and that hopefully you'll get more of those kinds of experiences. Representing the United States on the international stage has always been a tremendous source of pride for me. What was wearing the red, white and blue mean to you, and how does it make you feel when you put on the Team USA jersey?
Speaker 3:It's really cool to be able to represent a country being this young and doing it at that like extreme of a level in sport, so it's just really nice to be able to represent our country winning in second I've always been like super patriotic and stuff always had had an American flag, always love them.
Speaker 2:I have many American flags everywhere. It's great. It was super awesome to represent America, especially through the um. Like getting second and not like getting not podiuming and being like disappointed. We got second, so super proud of ourselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome, man, for your first uh, you know getting getting silver at your first world championships competition. That's quite the achievement, you know. It's really impressive what you guys have done so far, and both of your families you have military families right so I would imagine that that probably would inspire even more patriotism, you know, and pride with you when you put on that jersey.
Speaker 2:Go ahead. Okay, I always, I always love like meeting all the military people that my dad's friends with, getting all their stories from when they were out of the country and getting to make my own because, hopefully, I want to go into the military and make my own stories nice since my dad's in the military.
Speaker 3:we're moving to Singapore, which has really good indoor skydivers like Kira, so I've got to fly with her here at Paraclete and hopefully fly more with her when we go out there.
Speaker 1:Awesome. How did it feel standing on the podium of the World Championships receiving your medals?
Speaker 2:It was definitely awesome to be there and especially have friends up there as well, like emma valerie. Super nice, everyone was supportive.
Speaker 3:It was like great feeling it was really cool to be up there and just being able to compete. We didn't know what other competition would be there, so we started from the first run. We were in last, so moving all the way up to second was a really big accomplishment for us and that's huge.
Speaker 1:I didn't realize that.
Speaker 2:That is really awesome I messed up like that, four busts on the first round just in general, and it messed us up, sent us to last, but we definitely got second after we placed in the battle round just like the playoffs for normal, for like football, soccer and all that that shows a uh, an incredible amount of resilience to be able to come from, come from behind, and when you show that at such a an early age man, the uh, you know what's in store for you guys in the future.
Speaker 1:If you can deal with that kind of pressure and and rebound, you know, come back from it and end up with a successful finish. That's huge. Um, what did you take away from that incredible experience?
Speaker 3:looking back from the world championships, there's just always more that you can learn moves just from watching other people. You can take little pieces from everybody to move, put into your own flying skills everybody flies different, like there's somebody like this which makes them faster.
Speaker 2:There's someone who flies like that who makes them faster. So you've got to experiment and learn all the ways so you can master yours, the one that makes you faster, which is always great to see other people as well.
Speaker 1:Now you might have to educate me some on how the competition works for you guys. So, uh, you talked about a bust earlier, which would be a, uh, an infringement, um, for something. So, uh, what would? If you can explain, uh, how a bust would?
Speaker 2:happen and get out, you get a time, for example, 90 seconds. Every time you mess up, like going out of bounds on a racetrack or busting, which is an infringement on the rules, you get plus five seconds, so you go from 80 to 85. Instead of because if you mess it up, you mess it up. It's like going out of bounds on the racetrack, snapping the ball too early on football.
Speaker 1:Okay, nice, that was a good way, good, good way to put that do you have any?
Speaker 3:just like there's center lines and sidelines and rings that during pieces of the flying lines you have to go around or under one of the rings. So if you don't do it completely or you arm is still in the wrong quarter of the tunnel. That is the best.
Speaker 1:Okay, and for the free routine. Free routine or free round. Free routine Free routine. How do they have the same qualifications as far as BUS goes for that? Do you have some compulsory moves that you have to put in to that as well, or is it entirely free?
Speaker 2:That's entirely free. You can do what you you want. But obviously some moves are harder than others, like side fly, for example, where you fly on your side, that's going to score more than just flying head up. So you have to build it around like harder pieces but still make it look dynamic and like kind of speedy. Because one of the teams we faced one of them was competing in freestyle, so they made it like just like freestyle a bunch of compulsory moves from freestyle and we actually what the judges said was we beat them because they were too like, not like dynamic, instead like more freestyle, which isn't the point of the free routine.
Speaker 1:Okay, so there's got to be a dynamic element to it then. Now I'd like to go into training a little bit. What was your training like leading up to this competition, like how many hours of tunnel did you do, and what were some of the specific areas of training that you focused on?
Speaker 3:From nationals to worlds. We put in about 20 hours of team training and we mainly focused on getting lines down tight without busting, and we had to change some elements of our free routine because at win games ours was ranked easily on the difficulty score okay yeah, we.
Speaker 2:So. Our coach, mike zopko, is out of virginia beach and we're at north carolina, so every weekend for two months we drive down there for the weekend, stay there, train with him and drive back. So it's super like stressful but fun, because he's still got to get to the beach. And all that because I have school monday through friday. So it's fun, though made a bunch of memories with my dad, so nice, very cool.
Speaker 1:so, yeah, um, every now and then I get to go up to, uh, the tunnel at virginia beach and do some do some coaching up there as well and, yeah, I always enjoy, you know, staying right there on the beach and it's just a cool location cool tunnel, cool people working there. I like the STEM program, which we'll talk about later, the STEAM program that they have, with all the demonstrations Super cool what they do up there at that tunnel. How long have you two been training together and how did you meet?
Speaker 2:We've been training for about two years together and we both started in a youth program and the coaches saw that we could fly similarly, so they put us to fly together to start a training in dynamic so we started around the same time of flying at the same tunnel and we both went to a youth program at paraclete xp uh, youth league is what they call it there and one of the coaches saw that we're at the same level and we kept going and we got to a level where there is nothing else to do. So we had to do something. And they saw that we were at that same point. So they said why don't you guys compete? And we were like, yeah, why not, let's try it. And now we're here nice.
Speaker 1:Uh, so you talked about mike, and who are some of the other coaches that you've worked with in the past?
Speaker 3:we worked with chris bess and b-man brandon wood nice.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, chris was our uh, as you guys know. I'm sure he was our primary videographer for the uh, for the eight eight-way team, for the? U the eight-way team, for the US eight-way team. And man, what a great teammate, what an incredible flyer. I imagine he's just a cool guy too. He seems like he'd be an awesome coach. Did you guys enjoy him coaching? Yeah, it was great. What is the most meaningful and impactful advice?
Speaker 3:one of your coaches has given you. Mike Sofko told us to get comfortable. Being uncomfortable which means when you're learning new moves, if you're just gonna think it's gonna be easy the whole time, you're never gonna fully be able to fly to your best. If you get uncomfortable, then that will help you become a better flyer, staying in the correct orientation did he, if I can ask you a follow-up question on that, did he?
Speaker 1:how did he guide you to get out of that comfort zone? Because that can be a difficult thing for any of us. You know we're trying to learn a new skill and get better. You know, it's natural, I think, to fall into a slightly easier pattern, to where it's like okay, I'm good at this and you know like. I guess what I'm asking is is how did you push to that next level?
Speaker 3:We did a lot of like repetitive drills, getting into the correct position to just fly to our best.
Speaker 1:Oh, so essentially, you just, you know, broke it, maybe broke it down into a kind of bite sized chunks, if you will, and uh were able to, to, to progress, you know, out of your comfort zone there, cool, and what about you?
Speaker 2:so I trained personally at paraclete xp with jason brigman, the free fly current world champion. He said, um, that you always have to push as hard as you can flying. You can't stop until you get out of the tunnel and then when you get back in you have to keep pushing harder. And he said that because I kept messing something up, because he always cranks the speed as low as he can for me to float and has me try and do dynamic stuff and all that. So he's a super great coach and with the Mike sopka thing he breaks stuff down piece by piece. For example, whenever we mess something up when we got out the tunnel, he'd go on the whiteboard and do it like a engineering class be like, if you go here it's lower, if you go here it's faster, and how to go there and so just like, go here.
Speaker 1:He explained how to do it and why to do it so when you say go here, do you mean a specific place in the tunnel or, okay, just based off of the uh? So different tunnels have different uh areas where the the pressure is more than others. So is that what you guys are talking about there?
Speaker 2:it's more the lines like the sideline and the center line. It's like they make it cross and you have to go across each one of them when you get in and if you don't cross them that's a bust and infringement adds five seconds. So instead of going all the way out, you can go to a certain spot in the tunnel where it's on both, so you technically cross them and then you go to a different spot, continue staying super tight okay, that makes that makes more sense in your opinions.
Speaker 1:What are a few of the most important qualities a high level competitive athlete should possess, for example, having a strong work ethic, self-discipline, resilience in the face of challenges or hardships, etc yeah, just knowing that it's going to be hard and continue going and being a good team player and athlete to other people.
Speaker 2:Time management, work ethic. Because I have school and whenever I have to go I have to make up all my work and I have to do some work while I'm gone. So the time management breaks that into it. Because most great athletes were in school, most of them started in school, so they had to work their time management Same with when you work out you have to work that into training and all that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. That was one of the most difficult lessons I had to learn. You know, coming up and it's still something that I have to stay on. You know myself about. You know, when you, when you have all kinds of different activities that you're doing in areas of focus, it becomes a lot more uh important to to manage your time like that, and that's something that I'm also working with, uh, my 13 year old daughter, lauren, uh with but the you know the fact that you're learning that now um is is huge and it's just going to make you more successful, you know, in the future, being able to practice these, these skills, um. What are some challenges that you've faced as a team and how did you overcome them?
Speaker 3:We kind of have different flying styles where Gabe can do more like fast flying and I like to do more kind of freestyle, like the moves instead of speed. So in our free routine, finding a good balance between that and, as well, what the judges like was the challenge is like was a challenge.
Speaker 2:So in training I enjoyed doing the speed lines more than the free routine and she enjoyed the opposite, so we had to balance it out with that. That was probably the biggest challenge we went through because it was um, I always didn't like fair routine. I always liked getting as fast as I could, training that as much as I can, but you always like to enjoy yourself fair routine, prettier flying.
Speaker 1:I like that more so I was going to ask before. That was one follow up question that I was going to ask earlier was how do you dedicate your training? You talked about time management, so how do you dedicate your training? You talked about time management, so how do you allocate your training as far as focusing on the free routine as opposed to the other rounds?
Speaker 2:So at competitions there's three qualification rounds, or how it used to be is you'd fly two speed rounds, one free round, but they changed it to one free round. But they changed it to where that free round doesn't count at all for qualifications. So each speed line would count for 100 points and the free routine would count for 200. But they changed it to just the speed lines. So balancing that out because basically the playoffs, the battle rounds is what we call them in indoor skydiving you had to have a good free routine or you're gonna get eliminated. So you still had to balance that with the speed lines, with perfecting certain moves, working on the free routine, because between win games and um worlds we had like three months or two. We didn't have a lot of time, so we had to balance that a lot, train a lot.
Speaker 2:That was probably one of the harder things we had to do.
Speaker 1:And you talked about that being a challenge, because you each, you know, kind of wanted to focus on different aspects. How did you guys arrive at a I guess an agreement Was that, guided by your coach, or how did that work for you?
Speaker 2:so our coach really decided what we needed, but at the end of every one we'd have what we trained that weekend done, everything we did and every end of the weekend we'd rock paper scissors to see what we did final session, the free routine or the speed lines she won every single time you got to work on that part of your game.
Speaker 1:One vitally important attribute of having a successful team experience is effective communications, and this leads into what we were just talking about. Have you two always communicated well, or is it something that you've had to work on over time?
Speaker 2:well, we used to not talk at all like super awkward, but as we went into the nationals we realized we kind of have to talk because if we don't we're not gonna be a good team. So that definitely forcing us to talk was definitely great because we communicating is very vital to being an athlete.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure, Especially when you're on a team.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, especially in the tunnel, because you can't use your words to talk while you're flying. So we'd have to communicate outside of the tunnel to say what we needed to do and everything and choosing pieces of our free routine. It's hard to do without, without talking, right?
Speaker 1:And do you guys communicate non-verbally when you're, when you're flying, like if you need to make minor adjustments, you know, in the middle of your, your routine, do you do? You do that as well. I know, with eight way, like it was, there are ways that we could communicate non-verbally with each other through. You know, let's say some, you know you can feel your peace partner getting ready to go on something, but you know it's not built on this side and you can see it a little bit better. So you just kind of, you know, give that person a kind of tighten down your grip a little more and that lets them know hey, it's not time to go yet.
Speaker 2:Do you have anything you know like go as fast as possible as yourself without busting. And well, you just have to trust that your teammate does that, because the lights will flash red whenever you have an infringement or a bust, because they stay green and blue. So whenever they flash red it kind of like throws you off, but you have to like like dial back in on yourself because if you're work, so there's yeah um.
Speaker 3:So in dynamic there's not like a lot of contact, so there's no way to kind of signal without doing stuff. But sometimes if you mess up a line there is some hand signals that you can use to kind of say where you need to go.
Speaker 1:But during competition there's not much until we get out of the tunnel that we can review our videos and go over okay, and by that point you should have had your, your routine, honed to a degree, I guess, to where you shouldn't have to, I guess, give each other those kind of directions, right. That's something I haven't thought about, though, is that red light, and what a distraction that would be during your, you know, during your round. You know of competition. That adds a whole nother element where you're saying that you know, if you're not fully focused, that that would be a distraction for sure. Have you had any problems with that before?
Speaker 2:where it's, it's messed up your, your performance because it distracted you so when we were in the finals she went, she had an infringement, but it was late. They call it late because like a little bit after, because there's a delay when you click the button and the lights go. So I thought I did something wrong, so I slowed that piece down of the um line on next couple, which slowed us down. But it turns out it wasn't something I did, but more of I still went too fast, but definitely not that wasn't the reason.
Speaker 1:Oh, so that's something that you have to learn afterwards, you know after the fact. But I would imagine once you learn those lessons you know, then you can. You know, since you know that there's that lag or whatever that probably you're able to make those adjustments in your performance later on after having learned those lessons right. Do you have anything to add to that?
Speaker 3:It can throw you off a lot if you're especially like in the zone, think about what's the next move and all of a sudden you see the red lights. Especially if you don't know that you busted. It can make you start like thinking back what did you do? And that will throw off the whole thing.
Speaker 1:So there is an eight way or in four way in formation skydiving. You know there's a level of anticipation that we have to have for the next moves, but you also have to be present, you know, in the moment as well. So it's kind of a delicate balance that you have to tread. So I'd imagine it's the same thing for you guys as well, right?
Speaker 2:um, you have three um. So there's a snake, which is what you do first. There's a vertical, which is something you have to do below and over the ring. You have to cross above and under the ring four times. And there's a mixer where you have to cross the sideline three times, and they're all different moves. Those are just what they call them. So, for example, whenever you're going and then there's three pages, page one is the snake mixer and the vertical, page two is that, but the opposite way. And page three is the exact same as page one, except you get out at the end. That kind of after, when you're getting to page three and having to get out, the nervousness hits you because you have to like carve, which is kind of like moving around the tunnel super fast on the edges. You have to carve and get out the door. So when you're carving out the final thing, you get super nervous, like you hit your hand on the door. If I'm not mistaken on one of the qualification rounds, yeah, and she couldn't like squeeze her hand closed for a while oh no so it was super like just yeah
Speaker 1:shaking, I guess so your, so your exit, is part of the, the routine. Are you judged on like the the smoothness of your exit?
Speaker 2:so this is for the speed rounds okay um you're. They don't judge anything but the infringements and the time. So whoever is the faster time, plus the bust or infringements, wins okay, um, yeah.
Speaker 1:So for folks that don't know, just to get a better concept of the tunnel and the rings that you're talking about. So the tunnel, if you imagine this vertical tube, vertical glass tube with the rings are. So you said there's three rings.
Speaker 2:There's two rings. There's two rings. They're parallel from each other, exactly six feet from from the grade. The thing that holds you up whenever you stand in the um wind tube, in the wind tube for dynamic, is exactly 14 feet um wide, everywhere, like 14 diameter yeah diameter and they're six feet above and you have to go above and under on the snake Verticals.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, thanks for clarifying that. I'm trying to think of the people that might not have a concept of what you guys are doing. Just to explain a little further Looking back at your performance in Belgium, what is one aspect you'd like to improve on in the future? In other words, what do you think you'll need to focus on in training in order to make your team the best in the world?
Speaker 3:So our free routine was dredged second hardest so that one was pretty decent already. We're going to change some aspects so we don't have the exact same routine for next nationals, but our main focus will be getting faster and cleaner in our speed lines.
Speaker 2:So when we were in the finals against the Czech Republic, it goes the first two rounds. So you do a routine battle and there's five judges. The judges vote on whoever had the better free routine. And then you do a speed line and whoever's faster wins that one. And if one person wins the free routine and one person wins the speed line, you battle one more time in a speed line and whoever wins that wins. So we actually won five to zero with a free routine, but we lost both of our speed rounds. So we're to try and mainly focus on speed lines to get those faster, more efficient. All that good stuff.
Speaker 1:Very cool. That'll be exciting in the year coming. Now I'd like to move on to mindset. Having a positive mindset is a hugely important element of being a high-level competitor. What does having a positive mindset is a hugely important element of being a high-level competitor? What does having a positive mindset mean to you?
Speaker 3:Having a positive mindset. Even if there's mistakes happening and you're flying, just continuing going, not letting it mess you up. And not being too hard on yourself and being happy for the other teams, even when they they win, and being a good team player.
Speaker 2:A positive mindset for me is helping other people where they need help. For example, there's a laser in the door and when you cross it, your time starts. One of the teams that we faced they hit the laser with their hand, so the time started before they got in and then the lights started flashing red and they were like what did we do? They were looking around and obviously it's rude not to tell them what they did, because you want to make it a fair playing field, because this sport isn't exactly popular and the more you make it like worse mindsets people being angry at each other, rivalries, quote-unquote it just makes it worse, less fun to watch and all that yeah, it's a really mature way of looking at that.
Speaker 1:It reminds me of a couple guys that I looked up to in the sport and still look up to Craig Gerard and Kirk Verner and other members of of airspeed. Years ago I think this was 1998 and we were at that time there weren't a whole lot of wind tunnels and there wasn't a whole lot of shared information between teams. So when we were out training in Eloy Arizona, airspeed was out there and we were having, you know, difficulty with an exit or something like that, and Craig and Kirk came over and were super helpful and talking to both of them later, they're like, yeah, you share all the information that you can and you know, then whichever team wins is the absolute best. You know everybody's armed with the same information, the absolute best. You know everybody's armed with the same information. But you know so I think that's a. That's a really good way to approach that. Um, is there anything else, any other uh parts to having a positive mindset, that that you can think of, that you'd like to talk about?
Speaker 2:yeah, like emma said, even when you lose, you can't look mad because you're representing your country and you can't like be disrespectful or any of that, because it's not just you you're representing. You're representing the people in your country, in your country. So that, having a positive mindset, being like, oh hey, I'm representing my country, they did good, I'm gonna cheer for them yeah, for sure just walking out, storming out yeah, you guys are wearing the red, white and blue and you're ambassadors of of the sport for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah it, it is a big responsibility and you have to conduct yourself accordingly, and it's great that you're doing that. Now I'd like to talk about visualization. Clear visualization is inextricably linked to successful performance and competition. What are your visualization processes like? Do you like to listen to music when you visualize?
Speaker 3:your visualization process is like do you like to listen to music? When you visualize we have, um, our free routine is to music, but we don't have our in-ear pieces because we created our free routine before we put music to it. If we did it the other way around, we would listen to music, to cue parts, um of it, to like pieces of the music.
Speaker 2:But before we get in, I like to visualize what the line is and like where you need to focus on to not bust the most uh, the earpiece she's talking about is most freestyle athletes have um, an earplug in their ear that plays their music whenever they get in, so it's cued with a dude who starts the music. That way they can listen to it when they do their free routine I've always wondered about that.
Speaker 1:Thanks for clearing that up yeah, that's how they.
Speaker 2:They have an earpiece in so we I like to um, close my eyes and imagine where I'm at for each one, like getting in, getting out, doing the snake, vertical and mixer. They just wanted to. That always helps me because, like when I'm in the tunnel and I forget something, I already have the visualization in my mind to know what to do.
Speaker 1:Do you have any visualization techniques that you'd be willing to share with others, just generally?
Speaker 2:I like to lay down, close my eyes, look up at the ceiling, try to just put my mind only to that, nothing else. No one else is talking to me.
Speaker 1:Set my phone down, just focus completely on that and know where I'm going to be uh, sometimes when you're do you walk with your visualizations as well, or because you're you're doing dynamic it's. It's easier for us when we're doing formation skydiving because we're all kind of on the same level so you can walk everything, but I would imagine that's probably more challenging for dynamic so we still walk.
Speaker 2:That's one of the main things that got us to know where we are before. So walking is a crucial part at the beginning of training. When you get to the end you can walk the lines, but whenever you're in the final, you can't walk that line, the final one, if you tie. So you have to train your mind not to have to walk but for example emma, you love walking lines.
Speaker 3:Tries to get me to do it every competition I have a video of us walking it yeah, we have fall form dolls as well, because it gets crowded at competitions, so they're just little, little action figures that we can walk in, because when you're actually walking in line you can't go head down. So, using those helps to visualize more.
Speaker 1:Okay, very cool. Yeah, that's awesome. Those are some things that I hadn't considered about dynamic. Do you take your visualizations as far as seeing yourself receiving medals on the top spot of the winner's podium?
Speaker 2:No, I try to think that if I win or lose, I'm still going to be happy for other people, but obviously there's going to be a tear of where you're upset, but you can't show that because it's not you you're representing. I do like to imagine myself after getting out feeling like that she won. That's always a great feeling. Also like to imagine feeling that I lost and training myself not to get super angry and all that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I like to just think of one thing at a time, so instead of thinking of the whole process, I will take it like piece by piece or around. So yeah, it's a.
Speaker 1:It's really cool to hear everyone else's you know, um visualization processes, people that I've had on the podcast before. You know people that I look up to, uh, and hearing theirs, and everyone's a little bit different. Mine, for example, if we're going to a big competition, I'll try to, let's say, I remember in 2012, I probably did the most visualization I've ever done in preparations for that meet. So I visual, I knew we were going to Dubai, so I did all the research that I could about you know, about the area, the surrounding area and possibly where the podium would be, what it would look like. It would look like, and, you know, I just tried to to really picture everything in such great detail and attach emotions to it. You know which really helped to, you know, I guess, engrave these feelings in my brain. And I remembered visualizing, you know, being up on the podium. How good you know that felt, being up there with the team and, you know, just experiencing that together. And it felt like, when I got to the competition, that I was almost being being pushed, like it seemed very effortless, like my mind had already been there, I'd already achieved it in my mind, so I was just kind of, you know, drawn in that direction and, uh, you know, fortunately we all did, did well as a team.
Speaker 1:When I get to competition site, then I'll focus more on the, on the. You know the next step, the, the, the. You know the next jump, you know. So I'm solely focused on, on. You know what's in front of me and what I need to do, um, but I think for me, attaching those emotions to it and the, the end goal, was definitely helpful. I like the point that you brought up about, um, visualizing maybe the worst case scenario. So you know, if that does happen, you know I'll do the same thing. I won't put too much stock into it or too much effort into it, but I will run through that in my mind as a possible scenario, just so, if it does happen that, you're kind of more prepared for it emotionally in the moment. So that's a. That's a really mature way of of looking at that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so here the tunnel that we competed at in Belgium, instead of having so the sideline and the center line is at the same spot, except the door was a foot or so away from the sideline, as opposed to 90 degrees. The door is usually the center line, the other center line. Instead it was about one foot from the sideline. So you would visualize that, like our coach, mike Sopko, he showed us a video of what it looks like in the door and it looked way different and something that you can't prepare for, for like the tunnel when we were flying. It was super dark and where we trained virginia beach. That tunnel is super bright whenever you're flying, but the one in belgium was super like dark because they had le like blue lights on the bottom instead of normal white lights.
Speaker 3:so it definitely felt weird to flying, but not at the same time yeah, it's hard to visualize as well, like it's easy, like visualizing just what's going to happen if you fly your best, but sometimes mess-ups happen and you have to prepare for what you need to do if something happens. And there there's like a door burble where the wind kind of gives out if you're right by it, and every tunnel spots where that happens are different. So it's hard to visualize that until you're actually there yeah, that's another thing that I haven't thought about.
Speaker 1:It's, you know that would. I would imagine that would be um, kind of a big hurdle to to get over a big, a big difference, you know, and what you're doing, which, yeah, wow, um, how much have your coaches touched on visualization before? Like, is it something that, uh, that each one has talked about?
Speaker 2:so at wooden games I flew. I flew solo speed, which is just two-way except one page and two mixers, and so I lost my first round, because first time competing, I'm okay with that. Then I completely messed up. The line was backwards, did everything wrong, and while I was sitting on the bench waiting to go in, I messed up. The line was backwards, did everything wrong, and while I was sitting on the bench waiting to go in, I messed up the visualization, so I didn't know what I was going to look like as well. That kind of threw me off a lot and that's kind of what made me mess up the line completely and did you have an opportunity to to correct that afterwards?
Speaker 1:or was it just a one-time shot and that was messed up at the time, and maybe it was a painful lesson that you had to learn, you know, in order to do better in future competitions?
Speaker 2:So I got knocked out in the 1-8 final. So eight people were there and you all flew the same line. Whoever flew it the fastest was, I think, 10th someplace up there and last 16th, and I got 15th because I flew it terribly and that was definitely. You couldn't correct that because that was the last line you flew for solo speed. So that definitely was a painful lesson that I had to learn, but it helped me at Worlds.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's sometimes when you can challenge a bus so you can talk to the judges and say, like if they say you didn't have your hand all the way into a certain part of the tunnel and you're looking at the video and seeing that you did, you can challenge it. But if it's completely incorrect where you're supposed to be doing head up and your head down, you can't challenge that. It's like visible, that you can see that you're doing it wrong.
Speaker 1:Okay, you have anything to add no okay, um, having a a routine on training and competition days is important to automate repetitive tasks so they don't take up too much mental bandwidth. I'd like for you both to describe some of the routines that you have in place. For example, when I arrive at a competition site, I like to find a semi-quiet spot where I can lay out my helmet, jumpsuit and other gear, set down my food and water for the day and visualize the next round before walking the dive flow with my team. What are some of your routines?
Speaker 2:so whenever I get there I like to set my stuff down, go say hi, say hi to friends, talk to people, and then about 20 minutes before we're supposed to get in, I go sit in the little corner that we were in, visualize and then definitely at the beginning of visualizing because at the tunnel that we flew at for worlds they had a bar and it was great food and I always got like nutella crepes that as a reward was definitely the best like motivator for me there. So I definitely helped to visualize all that, prepare for that, prepare in the corner by myself, prepare with Emma, talk about it with her, talk about the outlines.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when I get there, I like to get all my stuff set up and then if you start thinking about it too early, you're going to overcomplicate it in your brain, so I like to just watch all the others fly when they get into their routines, fly when they get into their routines, and then about, yeah, 20 minutes I start visualizing and preparing to go in, seeing who's with us at that time.
Speaker 1:that's another thing that I was going to bring up before was that you know you talked about going to the world championships and seeing all the different teams and, you know, picking out different things from their performance that maybe you can apply to yours and and you and put your own unique spin on it. There's nothing quite like being immersed in that kind of environment to pick up and learn those kind of things. It's just incredible.
Speaker 1:I was at a Brazilian jiu-jitsu competition with my 13-year-old daughter, lauren, this past winter. It was getting closer heat time and I noticed that she was relaxing and talking with friends and family. I told her she should probably start getting herself mentally ready. I was a bit surprised to hear the response. She said I'm ready, I'm just going to treat it like another training day. I thought about it for a second, thinking I was going to offer some profoundly meaningful advice or fatherly guidance, but I couldn't find anything wrong with her approach. She ended up winning the match, submitting her opponent with an armbar. How do you approach competition Just another training day or do you apply extra focus?
Speaker 2:So something that I like to do is you're in the antechamber for as long as the judges are reviewing someone else's line. Sometimes it's longer, sometimes it's shorter. So I don't like to visualize the line of my head in the antechamber which is like where you wait to get in the tunnel, because that might throw me off, like if I mess it up the visualization and the judges just finish viewing I can't do anything about it. But something I like to do is I always like to get a blood flowing, jumping in the tunnel, getting ready, definitely high-fiving everyone. I always go and do it like I never get really like shaken up when I'm nervous. Obviously I breathe heavy all that nervous gut, but it doesn't really affect me usually. So I just like to embrace that I'm there, enjoy the moment.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I treat it like it's a training day. If you overcomplicate in your brain, it's going to make you mess up while you're in there. So just treating it like it's normal, not doing any too much extra work and just going in, letting your brain go into kind of autopilot once you get in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so once you get to competition, the, you know that's just kind of the, I guess, the cherry on top. So all the work you know has been done. You know prior to that. So if you kind of feel like I guess you have to put in all this extra effort, then you probably haven't prepared or trained. You know good enough to you know to be at the point that you're at. So that's a good point there. Yeah, I can definitely respect that. But is that something that you guys came up with on your own or is that something that a coach helped you with?
Speaker 2:so I came up with that on my own. My dad definitely gave me a bunch of advice that helped build that, but I mostly it. My dad built like a bunch of ideas in my head and I tried them all and I figured which one worked the best, so I used that one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think Bruce Lee had a quote and I'd butcher it if I said it, but I think it goes something like you know, just pick up the ideas of the people around you and then you know, adapt those and create what's uniquely your own. You know I butchered that, but it goes something like that. What other lessons have you learned from from your dad?
Speaker 2:From my dad I. He's always been like a teacher and a disciplinary, more than a friend. Now that I'm getting older, though, he's become more like a friend, since he's already taught me all the lessons I needed to. He's definitely taught me how to be respectful, definitely taught me how to be respectful, how to congratulate other people but still obviously want to win, and the mindset definitely was mostly his teachings and being ready. All the training the physical aspect, the mental aspect was mostly my dad's advice.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's awesome. It's great to have that kind of guidance. My dad was the same for me. My dad was a special forces as well, when I you know, when I was a kid and in the military, and he passed on some of those same lessons that you're talking about. What about you, emma?
Speaker 3:Parents and coaches. You always can take pieces of what they're saying, but yeah, you can't just see what someone else does and do it.
Speaker 1:And it's not always going to work for you. You have to come up with your own pieces to get yourself prepared and ready to fly. Yep, oh, great advice. Uh, now I'd like to talk about stress management. We touched on that a bit. Um, competition can be an extremely stressful activity. I find that especially true with tunnel competitions. There's lots of spectators, you know, staring at you just outside of the glass. Managing, managing performance-related stress is a skill in and of itself. Do either of you get nervous prior to competition round and, if so, what are some ways that you deal with or manage that nervous and stressful energy? I know that you talked about it a little bit and you said that it didn't, you know, didn't really affect you that much. What about you, emma, that you talked about a little bit and you said that it didn't?
Speaker 3:you know, didn't really affect you that much. What about you, emma? Um, going in on the first round, there's always gonna be a little bit of like nervous going in, and after that that was just like flying. You gotta watch other people fly. When I get in there I usually don't even see the people on the outside the tunnel, like you, just focus on what you're doing and so the nerves kind of go away when you're in there. But it's more nerve-wracking watching other people in the battle rounds, because everyone else has really good flyers too and do you have any any specific techniques that you use to to cope with that kind of stress?
Speaker 2:so when I first got in there, there's a line of people and it's hard to see the people in the back. So when you're in there, you see like one, two rows of people, so, and it's hard to see the people in the back. So when you're in there, you see like one, two rows of people. So you're not that nervous, you're just enjoying yourself, embracing it, having fun. But whenever I got out, it was lined all the way to the door. The whole thing was packed and I was like I'm cool with this and the next round.
Speaker 2:I knew that was there. It definitely shook me a little. The next round, but still stayed the same, tried to keep the same mindset, same routine before I got in and all of that.
Speaker 1:So these lessons that you guys are learning now, so early in your lives, are just it's going to set you up for so much success in the future. And these are things that you know took me years to learn and figure out. I know that. You know it is stressful for me when I go in. You know I feel a large amount of, uh, um, performance anxiety, and once I get into the tunnel I definitely need a routine to be able to to manage that.
Speaker 1:So I'll, uh, just for example, I think we'll do our, uh, we'll do our walk on the outside of the tunnel, our dirt dive, and then, once we get in, uh, wait for everybody to get situated and then we'll do another dirt dive as as the other teams are going in. If we have that, if we have that time, if you know, if we're later on in the lineup going into the tunnel. But then after that, usually I've got another minute or two to to visualize and go through the dive flow again. So I have to, like, sit down and, you know, just kind of close my eyes or look toward the floor as I'm visualizing this can just block everything out because there are so many people that are, you know kind of looking into that, that fishbowl at you, and it is a, it's a pressure cooker of source of sorts. So you know, you guys learning how to deal with that stress now is really, really huge. Now I'd like to talk about your personal backgrounds. How old are you?
Speaker 2:guys, I'm 12 turning 13.
Speaker 3:14.
Speaker 2:In about a month.
Speaker 1:Oh nice.
Speaker 2:Awesome, talking about this, you have to be 13 or 12 turning 13 that year to compete. We couldn't compete at Worlds last year because I was too young compete so we couldn't compete at worlds last year because I was too young and that definitely like throws me off that I'm so young and it makes me like a little weirdy that, uh, that's uh.
Speaker 1:I didn't know that about that. I didn't know there was a uh, an age, you know requirement for it. I have noticed that, you know, when I was looking at you guys' videos and going back and looking at some of the competition, that it seems to be most of dynamic has a younger demographic and that seems to be the trend more and more over the years. Did you guys have any reason why that might be?
Speaker 2:So the reason that that is is because training dynamics is tiring, because you have to go as hard as you can for that long. For example, kira Poe, she is a Red Bull athlete out of Singapore, so they have a rule. So there's solo speed, dynamic four-way and dynamic two-way. They have a rule that you can only fly two of those. That way people don't like get too stressed and all that overstimulated. So definitely doing like what was the question, sorry.
Speaker 1:That's all right. I was just talking about why you guys think that it seems to be trending to a younger age group for dynamic.
Speaker 2:It's definitely harder to learn whenever you're like not only say older, but like, not as young. For example, james Landon, the solo speed and two-way open winner out of the united states, his partner landon. So james has always been super great in sport, been flying since he was like 10. He actually trained landon for two years to get as good as he was from when Landon Landon's one two years older, younger. So definitely having that training in the back of your head, being able to train, not having to work, not having to like take care of a family, because dynamic takes a lot of training.
Speaker 3:So yeah, yeah, it's really hard on your body to fly that much and just yeah, it's easier when you're younger to be able to do that type of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. How did you both get into the sport?
Speaker 3:My dad's a skydiver, so we were doing a road trip here from Washington State and I did a tandem in Colorado. When we got here and I watched people fly at Perkley and I knew that I wanted to do that. We booked me a flight for the next week and after that I just kept going flying.
Speaker 1:How old were you when you did the tandem? I was 10. Wow, nice. My dad was in the military for 16 years.
Speaker 3:It was a while back.
Speaker 2:He's been out of the military for 16 years. It was a while back. He's been out of the military for a while now. But my parents they lived in Pennsylvania, grew up there, but they moved to North Carolina because my dad was out of Fort Bragg or Fort Liberty. Now, from 2001 to a certain time, my mom always wanted to do that indoor skydiving at Paraclete. Well, finally, my parents didn't have me and my brother because we were with family in Pennsylvania. So my dad's like, yeah, you want to still do that skydiving thing. And my mom did it and she was like you know, who'd love this Gabe?
Speaker 1:So she took me and then figured out the youth program and just kept flying from there. Very cool. How many years have you been flying and how many tunnel hours do you each have?
Speaker 2:I've been flying for a little over three years now and I have about 165 hours.
Speaker 1:So I've been flying for around three years now and I don't know the exact number number, but somewhere around 140 hours of flying, three years of flying and at your ages and you know, getting a silver medal at a world championships. That's really impressive. How do you both manage the demands of school and other activities with your tunnel flying schedules?
Speaker 3:I got put in homeschool so I could keep doing this and traveling, because a lot of the competitions are during the school year, so it's not too hard for me to like balance all of it because I can take my computer wherever and when we go to other countries I can actually go and see like other cultures, which is out of school, but it's still learning more.
Speaker 2:So I go to a private Christian school so it's definitely super hard to balance that in school. Luckily I don't mean to like toot my own horn or anything, but I definitely am like like more based in academics than I am in like um, stretching, working out and all that stuff. So I have had like A's and B's for basically my whole life and I've had that this school year even with competing because of like time management. That's been the biggest factor in everything I've done for indoor skydiving this year, cause I also played basketball for the school this year. My brother he super good basketball player. He's 14, six foot five, so go into all his stuff as well. Time management has been the most crucial thing in my life for the last couple of years and you said you're doing home.
Speaker 1:I just think it's incredible that your parents, you know, support you guys and all of this you know. That's huge, that you know they're able to help, you know, facilitate you, help facilitate you guys in doing this. That says a lot about them and the family situations that you guys have. And that leads me into my next question as well. You talked about the basketball. Do you have any other activities that you do, like playing any kind of instruments or anything like that?
Speaker 2:So I play basketball. That's what I do in my free time, mostly with my brother, though, because he loves to play, and my dad he's getting like he broke his ankle skydiving so he can't really like play with my brother anymore. So I work out with him, I play basketball with him just to like enjoy myself with him, since I don't get as much time as I used to with him anymore, since I've been doing all this.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's cool way to uh, to bond with him. Emma, do you have any other?
Speaker 3:activities that you do. Um, I don't do any other sports competitively, but I do ice skating sometimes, and I've been learning volleyball and tennis recently. I like to ride dirt bikes as well, and I just hang out at the drop zone a lot, so I've been learning how to pack Nice that's dirt bikes as well, and I just hang out at the drop zone a lot, so I've been learning how to pack.
Speaker 1:Nice, that's very cool. Um, do you find that? The other sports that you guys do? There's some crossover applications. Uh, you know whether it's on the mental side or on the physical side oh yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:Um, stronger legs, because I used to have like noodle legs. My legs used to be about three inches wide, so playing basketball definitely like made me like think that my legs are super small and that helped my flying a lot, because the stronger you are, the better you fly, because you can fly higher speeds and do all of that yeah, strength, and then mentally just having like better reaction time, which is parts of every sport pretty much, and being like in the skydiving community you get to learn about, like wind and aerodynamics do you guys do anything that trains specifically, uh, your reaction time, so that that aren't in the other two sports like, uh, like.
Speaker 1:for example, I juggle and I find that helps with hand-eye coordination For me, which is a bit more applicable to formations, but do you guys do anything like that?
Speaker 2:So I've always had terrible hand-eye coordination. It's cost me a few buster infringements at a few competitions. So whenever I'm by myself I like to throw tennis balls against my wall, catch them. They're one with my left hand, catch it. So doing that definitely helped me improve that a lot.
Speaker 3:So nice yeah, we did vfs at nationals so, um, our coach b-man had us doing that, throwing tennis balls and trying to catch them, just to help with taking the grips oh, cool, awesome.
Speaker 1:So, uh, just throwing a tennis ball back and forth, or were you guys doing like different kind of because we used to do that as as well um, you know, with eight way and four way, and then we'd come up with different patterns on how to toss. So so you'd have to, you know, keep your mind, you know, in in tune, not only with those patterns. Um, so you're thinking about those patterns and the reaction time of throwing and catching it the same. Did you guys do something similar, or was it just tossing it back and forth?
Speaker 2:so we went to the bottom of stairwell, apparently, and we would bounce the wall on the floor, off the wall, and catch it, and then our coach, brandon, or bman, as emma likes to call him um, he'd throw it as hard as he can against the wall and we'd have to catch it, and then you'd get a bouncy ball and throw that. So it definitely, instead of just throwing it yourself knowing where it's going to go, that definitely helped a lot before VFS especially.
Speaker 1:That's a cool drill. I'll keep that in mind as well. But I watch Formula One a lot and you know you see some of those. It seems like that they have some some higher tech solutions for that. So I don't know if you guys have seen like those light boards that they have and whenever a light goes up they have to hit that light, you know as quick as they can and you know just helps their reaction time. Yeah, super cool stuff, super cool stuff. Emma, I heard that you were just accepted into an early college program. Congratulations, thank you.
Speaker 3:That's incredible, especially for someone of your age. Can you tell us more about that? So it's a high school that you get to go four years and you get to graduate with your associates. So two years is normal high school. They basically take all the stuff you need to know and put it into that first two years and the second year is to get your associates.
Speaker 1:Wow, super cool. Are you really excited about it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's going to be fun.
Speaker 1:So we talked about you guys being in any sports outside of skydiving, which we already covered. That what's your favorite part about tunnel flying and competition?
Speaker 3:I really like being able to just travel and meet people, um seeing other people's flying styles and just, yeah, I like doing that type of stuff. I also like um coaching, like a little bit not much with like kids and belly flyers. I started being able to do that at the youth program I go to.
Speaker 1:Nice, how often do you do that?
Speaker 3:The youth program's once a week, so there hasn't been a lot of new flyers. They're more experienced now, so I've been mainly focusing on my own stuff.
Speaker 1:Cool. Do you have any plans in the future of maybe doing some kind of coaching events where you know you try to get more people at once? Yeah, I want to do eventually like a dynamic one, where not teaching them how to fly, but teaching them like the rules and the principles of dynamic yeah, that's a cool way to you know you bring even younger people in, kind of uh, invest in the, in the future of your, your sport and discipline that you know you care about so much. It's cool to you know.
Speaker 3:Kind of uh, you know, get some people that are as excited about it as you are yeah, we really good to yeah like younger people, because those are going to be the future of the sport yeah, for sure, and uh, gabe's just coming back to.
Speaker 1:And the question that I just asked, emma, was what? What's your favorite part about tunnel flying and competition?
Speaker 2:My favorite part about tunnel flying competition is getting to see other people's cultures, meeting new friends and getting that competitive aspect and building all the respect for other people and all life lessons that you'll learn eventually at a young age. That definitely is super fun.
Speaker 1:And Emma was talking about some coaching. Do you do coaching as well?
Speaker 2:I do not do coaching for indoor skydiving because she does it a lot more than me because I live 30 minutes away from the closest tunnel, but I still enjoy like talking to people about it, getting coaching, especially whenever someone asks me about it like a competition. That's always fun to help, like this, um 16 year old, um, what's his name? Um, he was from south korea, super nice kid, awesome. He asked me about something and it was super fun to like help him and stuff, because he was new to the sport oh nice, and it's uh.
Speaker 1:It's always cool for me whenever I'm coaching someone, to see that light, you know, turn on, you know when they figure something out, and then it's, uh, it's. It's hugely rewarding. And do you find that, uh, being a coach actually helps you to be a better competitor and fly yourself?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it definitely helps, because there's certain pieces that you won't even realize until somebody asks about it, and then you actually have to start thinking about every little piece of where your hands would be. Everything needs to be.
Speaker 1:Because you have to articulate that to someone else, right? Yeah, so it helps you to better understand and conceptualize it in your own mind. For sure, who do you both look up to in the sport?
Speaker 3:Kira Poe Red Bull.
Speaker 2:James Rogers.
Speaker 1:Nice. And James is somebody else who's local in the area and I'd like to have him on the podcast as well. You know a guy too who's been a prodigy and done some incredible things in a short amount of time. Yeah, he.
Speaker 2:Almost all the equipment at Nationals for like the laser and stuff was his. Without him the United States would definitely be not as good as they are right now for dynamic really because he won solo speed open and two-way open, so I like to call him the fastest indoor skydiver in the world yeah, yeah, man he's, he's incredible.
Speaker 1:um, do you both have aspirations of becoming competitive outdoor skydivers in the future as well? I?
Speaker 3:definitely want to start outdoor skydiving as soon as I can, Maybe competing a little bit, but I think for outdoor mostly I want to become an instructor and just keep flying, competing indoor.
Speaker 1:Both your parents are instructors as well, right.
Speaker 3:My mom is or no, my dad. My mom's done a tandem, but she doesn't enjoy it very much.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Maybe I want to go to either West Point or the Air Force College out in Colorado. Maybe if that's one of the paths that I can take, I'll take it. But my mom already can't watch me fly in the tunnel. She hates watching it because when I was at wind games this was her first time watching the whole competition as I was exiting. You have to exit as fast as possible and so low speed. You have to go above the six foot ring and then fly out as fast as possible. The door and I smacked my knee on the door and flipped upside down at the cameraman zoomed in on my face and my mom texted me after gabriel heller, never scare me like that again. That was super funny to talk to her that night, but I don't think she'd be on board for that no, yeah, my uh, it was kind of a similar situation with my mom.
Speaker 1:Like she, she tolerated us going out to the drop zone and she supported it because she knew that it was something that you know I was passionate about, but it was kind of more. You know, myself and my dad's thing. He was, he was a skydiver as well and you know it was something that we shared and bonded over. Um, emma, you've been a or you should be a subject matter expert on the accelerated free fall program.
Speaker 3:When it comes time for you to make your student jumps, I hear that you've sat in on something like 50 first jump courses yeah, my dad teaches a lot of them at Paraclete so I've sat through many of them and seen a bunch of students go from the first jump course to like hundreds of jumps, so it's really cool to see them progress and being able to see just like how an actual student is and use that.
Speaker 1:So I would imagine by the time you know it's time for you to go through the course you're going to be, that's going to be old hat to you already that you're going to breeze right through it. Now I'd like to talk about your team sponsor. Your team has a unique sponsor. Can you tell us what that organization is, what it does and who it benefits?
Speaker 3:we're sponsored by the children of fallen heroes. It's a charity for children and fosters who have lost their parents in military and first responders, and it takes them and teaches them about stem and has them fly in the tunnel to to fly and learn about aeronautics.
Speaker 2:So Children of Fallen Heroes non-profit organization being funded by Kellogg's to build a property right now to build his own tunnel. They teach, they go to tunnels like where we're at whenever we go somewhere and teach STEAM classes, science, technology, engineering science, technology, engineering.
Speaker 2:Engineering, art and mathematics. The owner, ken Walsey super nice dude. His dad was a Golden Knight and he died in the plane crash with eight other Golden Knights and his stepdad was also a Golden Knight. So he loved growing up with that community and still wanted to support that community and knew how bad it was for children who lost parents in the military in general and wanted to support them through their journey.
Speaker 1:He's been a big supporter Ken has over the years of the team and it's been cool for me to get the chance to know him a bit over that time, and it would be great to have him on the podcast too to talk more about the organization and the great things that are coming. You talked about the land and the big plans that he has as far as building a tunnel, but, as he mentioned, one of the focuses of the charity is to get kids on STEAM activities, getting them flying in the tunnel and learning about aeronautics.
Speaker 3:What are some fun examples of the aeronautics? The same for the whole thing and they'll put like tennis balls and yoga balls in there to see how they fly differently, and the kids will be watching to like know how wind can control different things that are different weights.
Speaker 2:My favorite part about watching that is seeing the kids' reactions. Like whenever the instructor puts the tennis ball in, they're shocked and stuff. But whenever he throws the yoga ball in they'll shoot up. And Ken has a super awesome dude who does it Very exaggerated when he does it. So he's like here's a yoga ball. It's awesome to watch. All the kids love it when they're there. Do they do the water?
Speaker 1:droplets too, when they're there. So, yeah, do they do the the water droplets too, when they're like pouring the water? That's I like. I like that one. That's pretty cool to watch. You know how all the different droplets are suspended and just moving around, depending on what. You know how they're reacting to those different forces uh, different, uh, you know, aeronautic forces. Um, where can people find more information about your team, online or on social media?
Speaker 3:On Instagram we have a team account NextGenDynamic, and on any social media or Google you can look up Children of Fallen Heroes and find more about the charity and our flying. Yeah what you said.
Speaker 1:Awesome and you're both such great ambassadors for the sport and it's been a pleasure having you on the show. What advice do each of you have for other young people who want to get involved in the sport?
Speaker 3:you can't be scared to fail and you're going to eventually it until you learn how to fly. You just can't be afraid to try it's definitely gonna be a hard journey.
Speaker 2:It's gonna hurt a lot, like I had bruises all over my back when I was first learning stuff. But whenever you get past your first training stage, everything it's so much easier, it's so much fun to do. Definitely, just keep pushing through it.
Speaker 1:That's great advice. Thanks again for being on the show and congratulations again on your silver medal at the World Championships.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:My pleasure, thank you.
