A Champion's Journey
A Champion's Journey
Episode 26: Kurt Isenbarger. Skydiving Stories: From Golf Balls to Golden Knights. Former U.S. Army Golden Knight, National and World Champion Skydiver.
Join us for an inspiring journey with Kurt Isenbarger, a renowned skydiver and former member of the Golden Knights, who takes us through his life filled with daring adventures and significant lessons. In this episode, Kurt shares his incredible experiences, from entrepreneurial beginnings as a young guy fishing for golf balls to rising through the ranks of elite skydivers. His engaging storytelling captures the essence of teamwork, resilience, and the bonds formed on and off the skydiving drop zone.
Discover how Kurt balanced his thrilling skydiving career with his business endeavors, showcasing his passion for entrepreneurship and community service. Through his anecdotes, he provides insights into the world of skydiving competitions, the importance of camaraderie in high-stress environments, and his efforts in disaster response initiatives.
Kurt’s unique blend of humor and thoughtful reflection can motivate anyone looking to pursue their dreams. Whether you’re exploring skydiving, business, or simply searching for inspiration, Kurt’s journey offers useful lessons for all. Don’t miss out on this opportunity to learn from an exceptional individual! Remember to subscribe, share, and leave a review.
Welcome to a Champion's Journey podcast. I'm Matt Davidson. From an early age, I've had the privilege of learning from world champions and world-class performers, and I've always been fascinated by what drives them to the pinnacle of achievement. In this podcast, I'll interview high performers to learn more about the habits, rituals, tactics and strategies which have aided them throughout the course of their journeys, so that we can take those lessons and apply them to ours. The mission of a Champion's Journey podcast is to interview not only those who have stood on the top podium in arenas of high-level competition, but to learn from those who have conquered life's greatest challenges and have dared to live life on their own terms. And we're up, Kurt Eisenbarger. Welcome to the podcast, man.
Speaker 2:Hello podcast world. Yeah, this is my first time here so, yeah, I appreciate you being here.
Speaker 1:This is long overdue man. You're one of the in my opinion anyway, you're one of the most larger than life characters in the sport of skydiving and, just in life in general, One of my closest friends. So this is really special man. I appreciate you being here.
Speaker 2:Well, no problem, I did not know that I was larger than life, that's for sure. But friends, yeah, we've been together skydiving and hanging out for what?
Speaker 1:going on 30 years, yeah, 30 years, yeah, crazy.
Speaker 2:Great times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd like to talk about your early life, prior to you joining the military, with some emphasis placed on your early entrepreneurial pursuits and how your business sense developed.
Speaker 2:Wow, if you back it up all the way to when I was really young, I just always had a kind of a desire to make some money. I did not grow up with a bunch of money kind of grew up, you know, just kind of scraping by. My mom worked just my mom and my brother and so we didn't have a bunch of extra money on the side, just enough to get by. So if I needed money I had to make and basically since I was, you know, five or six years old uh, even dating back that far um, I found different ways to make a little money on the side, make some spending money for myself, and it kind of just grew from there.
Speaker 2:One of the biggest ways I made money, starting out when I was younger, was fishing golf balls out of ponds, golf course ponds. I was a golfer and I saw all the balls going in the water and whatnot. Myself I started golf when I was like 10 and I was like whoa, you know, grab these balls. So I started making a business out of diving for golf balls. Walking through the woods, started out with and then diving in ponds at night for golf balls and shoot. That was a long time ago, but I could make a couple hundred bucks at night doing that and it was great. It was good business. Then I turned that into some other stuff and started making T-shirts printing T-shirts when I was pretty young and selling them on the side at Ohio State football games and whatnot, and before we get too far, I want to ask you a couple questions about the uh, about the diving for golf balls.
Speaker 1:So, uh, did that require any scuba equipment or anything like that, or how were you? If you can explain how you're doing that, yeah, you would uh.
Speaker 2:I would have my mom drop me off at the golf course at night where I'd ride my bike one or the other, and uh, you know, be about midnight, wait till it was dark. And I just kind of walked to the pond and had this special mesh bag I made and uh, get in the water. And just get in that dark water and uh, start feeling around. You get the. The ponds aren't that deep right, they're only generally maybe 10 feet deep at the deepest part. But most of the balls kind of roll in so they kind of run in like a vein.
Speaker 2:So you just kind of stick with that and you hold your breath, go down there and scoop the balls out. And then I actually did it for years and I actually got my scuba license to do it so I could get more balls. But the scuba equipment hauling it back and forth and in and out was kind of a pain in the ass. So I ditched the scuba gear. But I got picked up by the police a couple times getting the balls. But as long as I didn't damage the course, they generally didn't care if I was stealing the balls out of them.
Speaker 1:So you didn't have approval from the golf course? No, no.
Speaker 2:It was totally, you know, ninja style.
Speaker 1:Nice, that's awesome. But then you were taking them and selling them right back to the golf courses.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I actually had a contract with a couple golf shops in Columbus Ohio where I would sell, you know, grab the balls Sometimes I'd get at least 100 dozen, maybe a couple hundred dozen a night and take them to a laundromat that was open 24 hours, wash the balls, sort them out and then just box them up and take them to the golf shop and they'd buy every ball I brought in. I was getting about three or four bucks a dozen for balls and, uh, you may make in making several hundred bucks a night. At that age. Was was fantastic, you know, it was a good little living you so that's awesome.
Speaker 1:And then, uh, from there, you said you started talking about, uh, a t-shirt business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did, did pretty good there. And then in high school I printed some shirts for a class thing and then made some good money. And then uh bought my own uh printing equipment and whatnot and started. Uh started uh selling shirts at Ohio state game football games, uh and did really well there. And bridge day started. Going to bridge day, that was when I was in jump. Uh started jumping and whatnot. I was selling Scott Ivan t-shirts. After I started Scott Ivan again. I don't want to get too far ahead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, well, we'll definitely get to that, but uh, um, I think I remember you talking about gumball machines too, or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I started a little vending business when I was in college, started getting into that and at one point I had like 60 machines and they were not big machines, they were kind of like mechanical machines that didn't even plug in. That didn't uh didn't even plug in, they were just. They were kind of uh mechanical and uh did that for uh my my college years. Uh ran a little vending business and and, um, that worked out pretty well, made some money there.
Speaker 2:So and, but I had my hands and again all three of those things at one point, at one time, making some money on the side, and that's while you were going to school, and that kind of stuff too.
Speaker 1:What did you like to do for fun outside of that before you started jumping?
Speaker 2:Yeah, really outside of high school. So I finished high school and right out of high school I had joined the Army before I even started jumping. So I graduated in 1990 from high school and two weeks later I shipped out to basic training to Fort Dix, new Jersey.
Speaker 1:What motivated you to join the Army?
Speaker 2:Well, I just wanted to be in the army. To be honest with you, I did, you know, thought about serving my country and and I had several friends that were were, uh, joining marines, navy and some army. And I just thought, you know, I wanted to be, be part of the program, be you know, serve my country and whatnot. I had no idea that it would develop into a whole career, I just said. I walked into the recruiter, said, you know, sign me up and got me a job and that was it. It was actually a pretty quick turnaround. It was like six weeks from signing up to shipping out.
Speaker 1:Nice and you're a truck driver, right.
Speaker 2:That's right yeah.
Speaker 1:How'd you settle on that Well?
Speaker 2:I didn't know what I was doing. When I went to see my recruiter I said, hey, I just want to join the Army. So I took the test, the ASVAB, to get in the military and I did really well on it. But when I talked to my recruiter they were like, oh yeah, I only got a couple jobs, and one was an engineer and the other one was truck driving. And I was like, well, uh, I guess I'll just do the truck driver I had. I had no idea how the army worked, but I was literally just kind of uh, feeling my way through it and I didn't know, that I could say, hey, wait, hold on a second.
Speaker 2:You know I want to do this or that or the other thing. So I believed them when they told me that there were only a couple opportunities.
Speaker 1:So they were just trying to fill whatever quota. Pretty much, yeah. Whatever military occupational specialty was under strength.
Speaker 2:Exactly yeah.
Speaker 1:No man, there's probably a lot of people that go to the recruiter's office just not knowing a whole lot about it. Maybe it's different now with the Internet, because I was probably pre-Internet days, which you can, but uh, what I've, what I have done that job on.
Speaker 2:It turned out to be a uh, not a great job. During the global war on terrorism, driving a truck I didn't have to do that, but uh it was. It ended up being a pretty dangerous job.
Speaker 1:But fortunately things kind of worked out for you. You took a different path, but uh, we'll talk about that in a few minutes. Uh how did you learn about skydiving and what was your initial experience like?
Speaker 2:So I was going through in high school and I had a buddy named Johnny Murphy and he was in my class. We were really good friends and we were running around raising hell together pretty much all the time and he started jumping all the time. And, uh, he started jumping, uh, I believe when he was about 15. He went, uh at the skydive green county in xenia, ohio, and owned by jim west, and uh, he was jumping through his high school years and he would constantly be like, hey, come on out to the drop zone, dude, you gotta come out, make a jump and whatnot. And I had, I had seen some people jump and whatnot, but I was not. Uh, I did. I didn't have the bug yet, you know, it did not catch on and I was having fun in high school doing other things and partying and running around drinking and, uh, being crazy, and it just the skydiving idea had not sunk in yet.
Speaker 1:Like, as far as doing it for a career, just doing it in general. Yeah, just doing it in general.
Speaker 2:I remember, growing up I always had this kind of I would daydream about falling. I like jumping off things and whatnot, and I would daydream about being able to jump into a hole imaginary hole, say, in the earth, and falling and you know, almost like a wind tunnel. But you're falling through the earth and you're just kind of falling. And I had this daydream and it didn't really come to. You know, fruition till I, till I made my first jump. But, uh, I made my first jump in, let's see, I got out of basic training and then started, uh, going to college in Columbus.
Speaker 2:Uh, johnny had convinced me to go out to the drop zone and make a jump, and that would have been in November of 1990. I made my first jump yeah, it was tandem, tandem master guy named Gary Arnold and uh made a jump and I was like, wow, that's incredible. Uh, I think this is really what I want to do. I mean, immediately I fell in love with the concept of falling out of airplanes and after that first jump, so I made that first jump, and then it was winter was setting in in Ohio, so I waited till actually the next spring, to to, to get back into it were you a pretty good student, did it come naturally?
Speaker 2:wow, uh, so not really. Yeah, I, I, I did, I think, one or two more tantums to kind of get the feel of it, uh, that next spring and then started aff and at the time uh, skydive green county, they did not require their instructors to be aff qualified and it was kind of like, you know, he uh, jim west, who obviously an icon in the sport uh kind of just did his own thing. He wasn't a member of the USPA and he kind of, you know, did things his own way, I would say. And so I did the ground course and whatnot and went up on the first jump with a couple instructors and I ended up getting away from both of them and uh, just tumbling yeah, it was not a good thing and I ended up thinking, oh, I was definitely gonna die for sure and, uh, they taught you the method about.
Speaker 2:You know, if you're alone in free, fall for three seconds, yeah, but all that shit went right out the window when I was alone in free fall and I ended up, uh, getting stable and I think I pulled you know, at a fairly good altitude, but uh it uh scared the hell out of me that.
Speaker 2:That I it. It ended up being that bad. But the instructors, you know, they, they, they weren't AFF instructors. So, um, I had to save my own life and, uh, at that point I was like I'm not sure if I want to do this again.
Speaker 1:So you didn't get any bit of confidence from saving your own life though you didn't look at it from that perspective, you're like, hey, it kind of went bad, but ultimately I saved my own life, and that didn't give you any any bit of confidence. Not really.
Speaker 2:I thought, oh Jesus, I'm going to die right now on my first jump cause there's nobody around and uh, you know, like I said, ended up getting a parachute out and and and living, but uh, I was done.
Speaker 2:I was like I don't want to do another jump and my buddy was there and he was like hey, man, you got it. You got to go up and do it again. We'll sort this out, we'll get it figured out. So I went up on the next jump that day in fact, and it was much better. Instructors stayed with me, or I stayed with the instructors, however you want to call it, and that was it. So I made that second jump and it went better and I was hooked from there.
Speaker 1:Nice. So then you kept jumping at Green County for a while.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I jumped in Xenia from 1990, basically first jump in 90, till 95. And during that time period I was at the drop zone. So what did I do for fun, I mean out of high school? You know, had fun in high school, but from 1990 to 95, uh, I was at the drop zone pretty much every weekend, regardless of the weather, regardless of the season. Uh, you know, I'd drive the drop zone just to, you know, chance to make a jump, but I spent it pretty much every weekend and all all my time yeah, those are days like you know, waiting on weather.
Speaker 1:You know standing around waiting on weather. Now I'll bet there's some snow, but you jumped some snow out there did didn't make some cold if the plane was going up.
Speaker 2:You know it wasn't. It was rare, you know, november, december, january, that the plane would be flying. But if there were people at the drop zone, uh, jim west would, would fire up at twin beach and uh, and he, you know, if there was a load there he'd fly it, regardless of of the time of year. So nice.
Speaker 1:I was about to ask what kind of uh aircraft he had up there. So he had a twin beach. What else did he have? That was it it is cessna.
Speaker 2:But we didn't do many cessna jumps. It was basically, you know, they would wait till they got enough people to do a beach jump, but I made my first thousand jumps out of a, out of a twin beach, you know which looking back, I didn't realize how you know today's day and age.
Speaker 2:Most people wouldn't even get get in a twin beach you know, and radio engines and whatnot, and looking back I'm happy to be alive. But you know, jim West ran a good operation and never hurt anybody with an airplane and he knew how to fly the hell out of that airplane. Hell, any airplane really.
Speaker 1:That reminds me of just Twin Beach, reminds me of Scott Admiranoano, when I was on the style and accuracy team. Uh, we just rotated and uh, one of the engines just caught on fire. Man, huge, you know fireball outside the engine. I look out as a little bit concerned and uh, you know, I thought we were going to bail out. It's about 900 feet and uh, the pilot's like no, we're gonna take it around. He shuts the engine off. We land on one and uh, they just, you know, figured out that it was a, it was a bird's nest in there. The thing caught fire and then they just kind of clean, clean that up, made sure the engine was good and, you know, kept jumping it the rest of the day.
Speaker 1:But yeah those things could be a little scared.
Speaker 2:You have ever have any we had an engine catch on fire, but we were, we were sitting on the ground. Basically, during startup, we all got on and, uh, started the engines up and one caught on fire and it was not an emergency by any stretch. We were just, you know, idle on the ground and everybody got off and they came out, put, put the fire out, but other than that you know, we uh never an issue with with an airplane.
Speaker 2:They they had. Uh, I'm not sure what the circumstances were. There was one time they lost both engines on takeoff and depending on what direction you were headed on the the runway in xenia, you were either into trees, uh, if you were headed to the, to the south, or if you headed to the north, uh, there's just flat cornfields for a while, and they lost both engines on takeoff and they put it down, belleted in in the cornfields. But a while and they lost both engines on takeoff and they put it down, belleted in in the cornfields but had it been the other direction.
Speaker 2:The thing would have went right in the trees, you know. But um, they're, they're, uh, sky green county still up and running and doing. Well, you know it's, it's not what it used to be, but uh, they, uh, but they run a great operation still there today.
Speaker 1:That's cool. I'm trying to remember the first time I met you. I think it was in Eloy and you definitely weren't on the team. Do you remember that time and can you talk about the story of how you learned about the Golden Knights and when you decided to start going that route?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the golden nights, and uh, you know when you decided to to start going that route. Yeah, okay, so I was uh, from 90 to 95, jumping out in in xenia mainly, and uh, we started, you know, a four-way team in 1995 and the name of that team was conjure and it had, uh, let's see here paul sacks and morgan case, and morgan case was airspeed guy for a little bit and paul let's see, james nazar, I think was his name air force guy, and we started a four-way team and we actually had a little bit of sponsorship from a guy who owned a company and he basically halfway sponsored us for about 100 jumps and nationals the trip to nationals in 95 to deland it's not a bad sponsorship pack.
Speaker 1:No, it was it was.
Speaker 2:It's fantastic. You know, we had no idea why the guy was motivated to give us money to jump, but we weren't arguing, so we ended up making.
Speaker 1:You didn't ask too many questions about that. No, yeah he's a successful business guy uh, from cleveland in ohio and he's just kind of living vicariously through you guys, I guess I guess.
Speaker 2:so yeah, and he was all about helping us get to a point where we were at least getting on the scoreboard anyway, that's really cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it was a halfway sponsorship but it was fantastic. So we ended up going to DeLand in 95 as a four-way team and we did. I think we did like a 10 average and intermediate at the time I think there were only two intermediate and open and we did about a 10 average, had a blast. And that's when, you know, I was a big airspeed guy. You know I knew about the Golden Knights but I didn't really know about them. But you know I had been watching mainly airspeed four-way videos for the you know initial part of me figuring out what competitive relative work was about. It was all airspeed. What competitive relative work was about, it was all airspeed. But during that trip to land I met the Golden Knights and started kind of talking to them.
Speaker 1:So just to back up a little bit yeah, you were talking about airspeed and that was right at the time where they were kind of at their peak right it was 1995, and they had just won a world meet. Then you had that was the original lineup with Kirk and Dan BC, johnny Eagle.
Speaker 2:No, no, johnny wasn't on that team. No, jack, jeffries. Jack, that's right, kirk.
Speaker 1:Burner Jack. Yeah, kirk and Mark Kirkby yeah, that's right. Yeah, that was a team man, they were legendary. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that was a team man, they were legendary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they in 95, they were getting back from Gap France after a close meet. I think they won by one point in Gap and the Golden Knights, I think, won by two points. And you know they were obviously the stars of the drop zone Because back then you know it was belly, relative work was the biggest thing going on right, yeah, free flying was just.
Speaker 2:Uh, the pioneers were doing a brand new, yeah, I know, I mean, there was almost no free flying to be, you know, canopy piloting, you name it. It was. Uh, you know the, the stars of the sport were were belly flyers, you know.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, so, uh, uh. So then you're about to talk about, uh, meeting the Knights and how you get, you know, kind of introduced to that world.
Speaker 2:Exactly. So I we were actually staying on the holiday in down there in DeLand and, uh, you know the golden Knights for would would be down there eating breakfast and whatnot, and you know we'd go down there and I would keep an eye on them. I was like man, god dang, what an awesome job that would be. That would be incredible.
Speaker 1:And you were in the Army at that point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was in the Army. So from 90 to 95, I was doing my reserve. I was just in the reserves, I was still in college and whatnot and doing my reserve training, and uh met uh in in DeLand. I met uh, uh, trevor McCarthy and he was the one that kind of you know, kind of opened his ears to me and listened to me and talked to me and and John Hoover too, a little bit of uh john hoover, but they were like hey, man, you know you're in the army and you're doing this. They were like you come try out for the team and, to be honest with you, I thought there is no way in hell that there's a total pipe dream, for sure.
Speaker 1:And uh, I, I didn't think it was just an ability standpoint, did you think? At the time skill level, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:I mean, I thought there's just no way I would ever be that good to be able to go to the Golden Knights and make the team. I thought there was just no way it was possible. It was just like mental block. It was an impossibility.
Speaker 1:Before we get too much further into that, I'd like to talk about your, your athletic background. What did you do, too? Because you've always been been fit. You've been. I remember you were a fast runner and we were on the team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wasn't like a total athlete growing up. I did. I played golf in high school, a little bit of baseball. Uh, I always liked sports. I wasn't great. I had a brother his name's Kenny and he was. He was like, uh, you know, high school, uh, he was one of the stars in high school, played football, basketball, baseball, you name it, you know, and I was he. He had me height wise and weight wise.
Speaker 2:I was pretty skinny growing up when I joined the army, I was 147 pounds and six feet, so I didn't have athletic build per se, so, um, I just, uh, you know, played, you know, some sports that didn't necessarily require being a big dude, you know, or or being super strong so they uh do they start those sports?
Speaker 1:do they start to teach you about, uh, being a good teammate? Were you learning some things?
Speaker 2:no, looking at no idea about being a good team.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you, what taught me about being a good teammate was literally, uh, actually, as I was skydiving and then uh, being part of uh, the skydive Green County operation, kind of listening to Jim West, you know, I kind of would see how he operated, see how he talked, and I would, we would be out on the porch of the drop zone when the jumping was done and people were drinking beer and whatnot, and just kind of listening to him and I I took a lot about being a good teammate and it ended up being I didn't realize what I was listening to, you know I it was kind of I was absorbing what he was saying. I didn't know how I would have to use that later on in life, but but he had a huge impact on my life and you know, to this day he was like a second dad to me. He might not know that or think that, but you know, but uh, he had a huge impact on kind of helping me develop into, uh, you know, not only a better soldier but a good golden knight.
Speaker 1:That's really cool to have that kind of positive influence in your life. You know from that early age and those formative years you know what I mean. To have a good positive example, and I know that you've talked about him over the years and he has been a big influence on your life. But can you think about any one particular instance or example where you took something that he taught you that you didn't know in the moment, that later on you applied somehow?
Speaker 2:Well, uh, okay, let's just back it up a little bit. I'll answer that question. I mean, during my high school years I'm growing up, I was. I was literally running around with my hair on fire, breaking laws, drinking. Uh, I was, uh, you know, up to no good most of the time, right Like if I got arrested for everything I did during high school I'd still be in jail, right there's no lie.
Speaker 2:Uh, I, I was wild as hell and uh, but the you know like the, the more I stayed. Kind of once I found Scott Ivan, it kind of gave me a home and and you know, meeting Jim West and listening to him, his guidance kind of really got me to the point where what your question was, I remember him telling me hey, you know, you know, being a good teammate means constantly being there. You know, for and he wasn't even on the Golden Knights, he's on our Golden Knight but I remember him telling me, you know, if somebody's got their laundry in the dryer and it goes off, you know, take it out and fold it up and fold it for him. You know, and he probably doesn't remember that conversation, but it actually took me to the point where, you know, in tryouts it was like just make sure you know, make sure you're a good teammate, make sure you are taking care of the guys around you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you definitely did that throughout your career and you know I was, you know, on the benefiting side of that and I really appreciate it. Man, there have been you know many times it's you know, you know you're always, uh, you know, give you the shirt off your back kind of guy and uh, you know, you put me up in your place now, you know, when I was uh, you know, kind of fell on hard times and, you know, really appreciate that man. So I learned a lot of stuff from you too. Well, yeah, that's great. I'm glad you think that what was your Golden Knights selection and assessment experience like?
Speaker 2:Okay, so let's go.
Speaker 1:Well, first, maybe we can back that up a little bit and find, like how you? What was the point where you made your decision to submit your tryout application packet?
Speaker 2:Right, so let's go back to, let's go back to Deland in 95. I'm sitting there talking to Trevor and John Hoover and these guys are like, hey, man, you know, you gotta, you gotta try it. So I went back home and, you know, did some soul searching and I I was, I had a pretty good job at UPS too. I was working there at the time and I was in management and and making pretty good money, uh, as an early management kind of guy and and, uh, you know, saw that as a possible career. And uh, and I thought, man, what you know, what really do I want to do with my life? And my time in the Army Reserves was actually coming to an end and I thought, you know, if I just roll the dice here and take a chance, go active duty and try out for the team, what do I got to lose? Nothing. Some time, you know, I will continue my Army career a little bit more one way or another.
Speaker 2:If it doesn't work out which I had no problem with, I was still enjoying being a soldier in the Army and decided at the end of 95 to go ahead and go back to the recruiter and say, hey, I want to go back in the Army, back to the recruiter and say, hey, I want to, I want to uh go back in the army. So uh got the paperwork done to where I was going to uh get fort bragg as a duty station and go there. And went there with, you know, with the intention of putting a packet in for gold knight tryouts. But no guarantees you know there were. Nowadays there's a little bit more uh, there's more of a system to bring guys to the team if you want. But it was a, it was a total roll of the dice on on uh making the team.
Speaker 1:So yeah, on that point, just uh, in case anybody out there is listening and wants to come to the team. Yeah, they, they do a uh. They have different uh programs where I guess it's like a street to seat type of program. You know where they'll do that kind of stuff, but anyway, yeah, yeah, no, uh.
Speaker 2:So put. Uh came to. Got to fort bragg in april of 96 active duty. I was in the um transportation unit there and uh put my packet in and uh waited. Uh put it together as good as I thought I could and and uh waited for the letter for acceptance to tryouts.
Speaker 1:So, people who don't know. I don't know if we've talked about this on the podcast before, but, like the tryout application, um, yeah, at the time you're making copies of your log book, you were, uh, you know, putting down references and um, uh, you know, they had a format where you would answer some questions in there. But basically they just wanted to find out the uh, the essence about you, right, they wanted to make sure that, uh, you fit the criteria as far as, no, you know, no bad legal record or anything like that, and no UCMJ actions, uniform Code of Military Justice in the Army, that kind of stuff. But yeah, at the time it was kind of difficult to get together because, you know, this was before computers and stuff. I remember when I put mine in anyway, and yeah, but it's just fun to go back and think about that. So we talked a little bit about being a great teammate. In your opinion, what qualities make up a great teammate?
Speaker 2:Wow, you know, just being aware of the kind of the guys you're around, just knowing them and kind of it's a tough question. You know I've never thought, okay, you know what's going to make me be a good teammate. I've just kind of carried myself in a way that was you know, how would I want to be treated if I was you know, not me if I was the other guy, or that's a tough question.
Speaker 1:When I think about it, maybe to help you out is the biggest thing that comes to my mind would be like selfless service. You know, quality, quality like that. Yeah, there's a bunch of catchphrases out there you can use.
Speaker 2:But in the end, you know, being a friend or brother to the guys, you know, a family to the guys you're with at that point in time, whether it been, you know, I started out on the demo team and did my first year as a demonstrator on the Golden Knights. I think I was a good teammate, you know. Just because you know I said, you know, be first year on the gold knights, you kind of keep your mouth shut, do what you're told and, um, if something needs to be done, you do it. And I kind of like was like, okay, that's what I'm gonna do, and and and did that. So, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's hard. There's really no secret formula other than just being a good person to the guys you're around.
Speaker 1:And in your mind who stands out as a really good teammate that you can think of that were on a different team or the same team as you.
Speaker 2:Wow, you really have to say like and I don't want to get into it who, who, who wasn't a good teammate, like my demo team year. You know my first year on the demonstration team uh was 1997 and, um, not nobody really stuck out but it was, it was uh, uh as as a great teammate during that time. But everybody were really good teammates. You know we were family.
Speaker 2:You know it kind of turns into a family yeah for sure, and you spent a lot of time, um, obviously, on the road together, training together and whatnot, and, um, you know, ken brown, kb was was the was the demo team leader. He was a great demo team leader. We ended up spending some time on the eight-way team together. Yeah, he was a great teammate, yeah great, great, great guy and you know didn't expect anything that he didn't expect from himself, and I loved the demonstration team and just had a really good time.
Speaker 1:Gold team or black team, black team yeah, we'll get into some of that in a few minutes, but before we get too much further down the line, I want to talk about what your tryouts was like, or your Golden Knights assessment and selection. What was that experience like for you, if you can kind of paint a picture of that?
Speaker 2:So well, I'll back it up real quick. I'll tell the story. I don't know how long people were going to listen to this.
Speaker 2:They probably shut it off for hours, man so I got my letter for golden night tryouts and uh, during the summer of 96, and uh, we, I was like man going to GoldenEye tryouts. This is incredible. So we, you know that that was it. But at Rayford, I was out there jumping at Rayford for PK Day, which was a memorial of Gene Paul's son, and I was jumping with Kennyny love it and sammy thistle and ellen thistle. We were doing four-way and wow, some names I haven't heard in a while. Yeah, and we're out there doing. It was free jumps for the day. And uh, we were there. Uh, it was first or second jump of the day and I happened to be there when a girl, a 13-year-old girl that was out there doing a ride-along in the otter long story short she gets off, jumps out of the jump door of the otter and she had forgot her hat or glasses or something.
Speaker 1:This was after the aircraft landed. She was on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a hot load and I was sitting underneath the wing and a couple of us were sitting underneath the wing kind of like waiting because we were getting out first, and she ended up doing a quick turnaround quick turnaround, like she got off the airplane to go back, but then she just immediately went forward and walked in under the wing and walked straight into the propeller and she killed instantly. Right, you know, I mean it was terrible, uh, and it happened right there.
Speaker 2:I was five feet away from it and so they shut everything down and we, you know, we started drinking, to be honest with you, we started having some drinks, just to forget about the whole thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just to elaborate on that story a little bit. I was on that aircraft with my dad. We were jumping and we were all the way forward, up with our backs up against the forward bulkhead, right behind the pilot, and she was sitting in the passenger seat up next to the pilot and we were having a conversation with her. You know, then we, um, you know, we did the jump, dad and I did the jump, and, um, after we landed I was on the ground talking to uh, sully williams. My mom was out there. What's up?
Speaker 1:bren, bren, richards, ladies and gentlemen, the uh, uh, current world champion yeah, current world champion with the uh, female four-way team this past October for the world championships in Beaufort, north Carolina. Anyway, yeah, getting back to the story there, yeah, so I was talking with Sully Williams and my mom happened to be there and we heard after, you know, we had landed. I heard the prop, you know, slow down in a weird kind of way. And then I remember, you know, it kind of attracted everybody's attention and my dad ran over there and I went over with him and as he got closer to it he was like, hey, run and get my aid bag. He's a physician's assistant. So I went and get his aid bag and when I went, you know, running back with it, they had already had a poncho over and he was shaking his head. No-transcript, but anyway, uh, how so, uh you're, you're using that to lead up to, uh, your golden nights assessment and selection.
Speaker 2:I went to Sammy Thistle's house and Ellen Thistle had some issues. She was not doing good, and he's like, hey, dude, you can't stay here. I was going to stay there and normally I don't drink and drive and he's like, hey, you can't be here. I got some buddies coming over, so I ended up deciding to drive back to the drop zone and, like I said, I don't normally drink and drive and I'm headed back to Ray, back to the drop zone, and I don't like I said, I don't normally drink and drive and I'm headed back to rayford, to the drop zone, and there's a sobriety checkpoint on 401. No, no, right, where the wind tunnel is, and I'm driving, I see the lights. I've never seen one.
Speaker 2:In 26 years of being here, I've never seen a sobriety checkpoint on 401. And I'm headed that way and I'm like I got only one option, that's just to do a ue and turn around and get out of there. Well, as I was doing a ue there on I believe it's the wayside drive or there's some more state troopers that were kind of waiting and I turned around and and jammed on the gas going the opposite direction on 401 and state trooper was a little bit behind and he he lit, lit his lights up and was on me and I was going as fast as I could down 401 like terrible breaking the law, you name it. It fell in the evasion. It was bad, bad news. I can't believe I'm telling the story, but it's all right, it's so I it's enough.
Speaker 2:Time has passed yeah, I end up getting away from this state trooper. But had had they pulled me over, uh, they would they. Back then they just beat the beat the hell out of me and then taking me to jail for sure, and my army career would have been over and I never would have made a tryouts. That's, that's my tryouts. Leading up story is uh, it was close, it was close. I ended up out running a north carolina state trooper hope you're all not listening come get me now. It's a felony well, it was.
Speaker 1:Uh, yes, I've heard you tell the story before. First of all, I didn't know it was linked to that incident out at rayford, um, but uh, can you, can you describe a little more, because I've heard you tell this in great detail about driving across the field and stuff and what you're feeling and how did it all shake out? How did you finally get away?
Speaker 2:Well, I ended up. I was driving from Sam's house back to Rayford and I stopped at Subway, got a sub and I had some beer in the front seat and I was like I said I was going to go crash at Rayford. They had a bunkhouse out there at the time, somewhere I was going to sleep in my car because I didn't want to go back to post. And um, as I made the turn and they were chasing me, I I just was going fast enough that they they had. I had a good enough head start on them and made multiple turns, turn my lights out. I ended up not going through a field, but I found a good enough head start on them and made multiple turns, turned my lights out.
Speaker 2:I ended up not going through a field. But I found a gas station and pulled in there real quick, hopped out and then hauled ass, walking just down the road and I literally just walked for about 30 minutes down the road. It was late by then and I came back and my truck was still there. So I hopped in my truck and I just stayed there until, basically, the sun came up. I slept in my truck right there in the gas station parking lot and uh, just got lucky luckier now that they didn't catch me. I mean, not too many people get away from you know my state trooper, yeah, yeah and I would have went to jm, everything would have been over.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't be here right now, probably who knows what would have happened, but uh, it was, it was a close call and it would have been some other podcast or documentary probably not one that had champion in the name of it yeah, I couldn't believe it, like I do not drink and try folks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was bad, but man what an incredible story, um so so you're fortunate enough to get past that ordeal and make it to Golden Knights Assessment and Selection. So if you can talk about that whole experience and kind of give those who might be thinking about doing it, or just give others, a sense of what it was like, great I hope this doesn't turn into a commercial because I'm not a very good role model at this point in the ball game.
Speaker 2:So, uh, tryouts, you know I went to tryouts, um went. Uh, man, a lot of good guys johnny maulford, who else? Um, rob cairns, rich chandler, um, I think about 25 people started and I actually had the most jumps going into the tryout program. I had about 1,000 jumps at that point in time. But you know, the old trick to going to the GoldenEye tryout assessment and selection is just kind of keeping your mouth shut, you know, even though if you've done it before, you know what you're doing. Just, yes, sergeant, you know, keep your mouth shut, do what you're told, be a good teammate. And you're doing just, yeah, yes, sergeant, you know, keep your mouth shut, do what you're told, be a good teammate, and you're gonna. You know you'll make it through the program if you don't get hurt. You know that's a big thing.
Speaker 2:You know, uh, tryouts is basically a peer evaluation program. So, um, you know, most of the people that get cut from the, the program, are actually peered out every week, as you know, matt. Uh, you know, you get right down on a sheet of paper the, the people that you think would make good golden knights and you start at the top, you know you don't put your first yourself up there, you don't put first, you don't put yourself last puts, put yourself somewhere in the middle, because you're probably in the middle somewhere, everybody's in the middle, uh, but uh, I made it, ended up making it through the program, um, with eight, eight other guys out of out of 24, but it was a fairly uneventful program. You know they, they uh, like I said it, you know it all comes down to it's a personality evaluation. If you're out I said you know it all comes down to it's a personality evaluation If you're out there thinking, hey, you know, maybe I want to go and try out for the Golden Knights, you know, really it's a personality evaluation program.
Speaker 2:Is what it is? The jumping part they're going to teach you You're going to have everything you need to learn to be very good at jumping out of airplanes or, you know, hitting the target or whatnot, whatever, whatever route you choose, but in the end it's uh, it's about what kind of kind of person you are and, uh, is there anything that sticks out in your mind, anything like maybe something that you weren't totally prepared for?
Speaker 1:that kind of caught you off guard and you know what kind of was a shock to your system.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I was a little bit surprised how they ran the program at the time, way back when it was pretty tough, they worked you pretty hard. You know, the jumping portion is important, important, but it's more of, like I said, a personality evaluation. I guess that was the big shocker. You know, I kind of knew going in, but I didn't.
Speaker 1:I wasn't 100 sure did you think that it was going to be more uh, performance?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, I did and some guys we there's been guys that go to tryouts with you know a thousand plus jumps and they end up not making the team because you know they kind of missed the whole factor with you know a thousand plus jumps and they end up not making the team because you know they kind of missed the whole factor. That you know you're really trying to not impress but you know, be be a guy that's going to be there for your teammates in the end right, so that it doesn't really matter how many jumps you have at that point.
Speaker 1:for that, yeah, because the reason for those that don't know is that, you know, when you're on the road so many days with these people, you want to make sure that, uh, you know that you can work well and play well with them and, um, you know. So that's why it's uh, it's mostly based on that and not by you know, uh, your skillset at the time that you go through tryouts, because, just like you said, that can be taught to you. You know, the Golden Knights are going to teach you a certain way. So, as long as you can, kind of, you know, take your ego and keep it in check, you know, if you've got a lot of jumps and you're going through tryouts, you know, put that in check and just be open to the Golden Knights system and what they're teaching you.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, for some that aren't expecting that, that can be a mental challenge or barrier to be overcome, for sure, mental challenge or barrier to be overcome, for sure. Um, we talked about the the qualities of a teammate. What are some special moments or events in your scott evan career which stand out the most? Like world records, memorable demonstrations, competitions, etc wow, that's a big question.
Speaker 2:Let's see here. Let's go to, let's go to competitions. Um, you know, we I made the, the ended up doing a year on the, the demo team, and then tried out for the eight-way team. Let's talk about that. Yeah right, tryouts for the eight-way team. Yeah, so, which was my whole goal? I did come to the Knights with the goal of being a relative work competitor A hundred percent, and that's something they asked me during tryouts and I was afraid, a little afraid to answer, but I had to be honest with him because there's there's a little bit of internal jealousy on the team about guys that you know end up making the rw team. You know that at the time there was I don't think it's that way anymore, but uh, way back when it was like um, you know, if you, if you vocalized wanting to be a competitor, it kind of maybe left a little black mark on your whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were like, ooh, this guy wants to jump ahead and do this without paying his dues type of deal. I think that's the mentality.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I remember Shane Haller, great guy, gold team demo team leader. He asked me he was like you know, what do you want to do? And I and I I had to be honest with him. I said I do. I do want to be a competitor at at some point in time on the on the golden Knights.
Speaker 1:Luckily if there's anybody to be telling that to you, said Shane Holler yeah, yeah, he's a great.
Speaker 2:And he's like you know, okay, and let's see here. So I ended up. Let's see, I tried out for the eight-way team in 98, and there were how many people were trying out for the eight-way team? Matt, you were already on the eight-way team.
Speaker 2:Then we had Ken Brown and, uh, chris talbert was brian smith in that one, brian smith was there and I think there were about six guys, I believe mike kalian, and we were all trying out for the eight-way team and uh, so there were different levels. Brian smith was brian smith, who was a golden knight as well. Uh, he, we were about even we were the most advanced on the relative work portion talbert too right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually, talbert was up there yeah and uh.
Speaker 2:You know it was pretty close. And then it came ended up coming down to there was one slot to fill. Matt actually was getting his slot, he had been waiting, he was good enough, he was getting his slot on the eight-way team and then it came down to Brian Smith and myself getting the last slot. So we go down to I'm going to jump forward a little bit we go down to DeLand and we do a training camp in the land at the end of 97 and brian smith and myself we are like literally tied. We we're doing jumps with the eight-way team, basically, and we're swapping that's right.
Speaker 2:I remember scores wise, score wise yeah, we were like, tie, we go up and do the 17 with kurt, which myself, and then they would do a 17 with Brian Smith. Same jump, and then we'd do a. I would do a 20 with the eight-way team and then Brian Smith would do a 20, just swapping out one person.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:I forgot all about that and it was literally dead, even between us two, and they had very. It was very difficult for them to decide, so I'm going to back it up a little bit. We did a uh when we started doing some um, pt, which is uh, physical training. Uh, with the eight-way team we did a six-mile run I remember that out at rayford one morning, so full six mile run, as fast as you can go, and uh, at the time charlie brown was a team leader and carrie mills was the assistant team leader both extremely fast runners, yeah both huge runners and you know charlie's a gazelle.
Speaker 2:Charlie could can drink a 12 pack or 24 pack at in midnight.
Speaker 2:Wake up at five o'clock morning and run that's how he cleared his hangovers, yeah yeah, so we do this six mile run and uh, I'm like I was a pretty good runner at the time, I'll admit, and uh, I tried to stay with carrie and charlie, and which I did for the six mile run. I think it was about 42 minutes, so it's average seven minutes a mile on this six, six mile run, pace man it's fast pace and I wasn't at the front of that group.
Speaker 1:I remember watching guys from behind I.
Speaker 2:I was about a hundred feet behind carrie and charlie. They were together and they still carry laughs. Because he, he kept on looking behind and was like man, that guy still with us, come on. We got to pick it up, charlie, and I was not gonna stop and I ran with everything. I had every ounce of energy and then I started like vomiting about a hundred feet from the finish line you and Chris.
Speaker 2:I remember Chris was throwing up too well, yeah, yeah, but I was, I was the next, I was a third, I finished third in that run and I came, you know, came across and almost caught up to Kerry and Charlie and it's thrown up all over the place. But but you know, I gave it all I had and in the end, when they decided between myself and Brian Smith, they were like we're just going to base it on that six mile run.
Speaker 2:I mean, we had nothing else to base on. You guys are identical in in the air, but you know you gave it all you had. We're going to go with that is you. You gave everything you had on that run. So, uh, that's how I got ended up getting the one slot on the eight-way team at the beginning of 98 yeah, that's incredible, that's an epic way to do it.
Speaker 1:And I'm I, uh was just talking to tim denunzio, the owner of uh skydive, paraclete XP and Paraclete XP SkyVenture Wind Tunnel here in Rayford, and I was talking to him the other night at PK's and you know, driving in on that road where he used to do all those runs. Man, I still get PTSD Every time I drive down there. You know, I think about those dark early mornings, you know, running on the side of the road, cars driving by in a hurry, and man, there's a lot, lots of memories there. Yeah, I don't think the team team does that anymore. They have their own training program. That's, uh, done a lot more intelligently actually. You know, they they uh, um, it's well structured. I can't, I can't remember what organization they're working with, but they're closely monitored and all of their physical stuff. So they've really got it down. They're getting it down to science now.
Speaker 1:But, uh, man, we had some some incredible times doing that stuff, pt all around the field and uh, before jumping every day and, yeah, some good stories came out of that. But uh, uh. So we were talking about highlights, um, so any other ones that you can think about, you know, outside of that, I know you've done a lot with the team. You know you've been uh, not only with the competition section. You were talking about black demonstration team. There had to have been some incredible demos that you did and you know you're on the tandem section as well as a tandem instructor. It's tandem instructor, excuse me, and AFF instructor and you know. So, out of all those times, what are just some highlights that you can think of?
Speaker 2:yeah, but let's go to the rw portion, because that's maybe where people are thinking about when they listen to this. Um, we went out, uh, so I made, I got the slot for the eight-way team. Uh, at the end of 97 into land, they're like congratulations. And and they they, you know, carrie and charlie were like hey, you know, and they told the rest of the team we're going to base this on basically a six mile run. So I got the slot off the six mile run and a little bit of skydiving ability.
Speaker 2:I guess, but uh, so we go out, uh, to Eloy our first year. Matt. Matt's there, obviously he's with us and we do what?
Speaker 1:400 jumps two months I remember praying for weather days, that yeah, praying, praying we did.
Speaker 2:We ended up literally we're in eloy from it. We got out there about january 15th, whatever, and we did two solid months in eloy, did 400 jumps solid, not one weather day. I swear we were, we were, uh, it was a lot of jumping and we had the valentine's day meet with airspeed at the time and airspeed had a good eight-way team. Uh, they had, they were, they were training hard eight-way as well and at the time they they had aerial filming judging. Basically they were judging it as the jump went on right.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right. They had a live ground-to-air transmission. Yeah, yeah, air-to-ground transmission, Air-to-ground right.
Speaker 2:So as a jumper, you could look down and we had a system on the Golden Knights. We had a big wind flag, know, big uh wind blade, and if we were swinging the wind blade, then we won the jump. If, if it was, still we tied the jump, or if it was laying on the ground, then we we lost the jump. So we would know, literally we'd open the parachute up, you know, and look down on the ground. We would would know if we won that jump or not, you know.
Speaker 1:That did add a cool layer of excitement to the competitions, for sure.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, they don't do it nowadays, but at the time it was unique. Yeah, so just to elaborate a little bit.
Speaker 1:I don't know if we were clear enough on that so that people can visualize what was going on. So live air-to-ground transmission required the videographer to wear a transmitter so that it could be judged live. So you know, people are essentially watching the jump as it happens on the ground, and then you've got a panel of judges which are using electronic scoring pads to judge each correctly scored formation or give you a bust for an infringement, for an incorrect build on a formation.
Speaker 2:So yeah, then you knew before you landed, which is added a really cool element to it right, yeah, so the valentine's day meet, I think it was a six round meet and it was my first meet against airspeed, who you know, like I thought were even better than the golden knights. I mean, I was like jesus airspeed. I can't believe that I'm even competing against these guys. It was huge, you know. I mean, out of all the sports I ended up, you know, ended up trying out or being part of, I ended up being fairly decent at jumping out of airplanes which you know that's a hard path to find. You know, who even knows, who even guesses that's going to happen. So it was a very close meet.
Speaker 2:At the valentine's day meet this would have been in february of of 98 and uh, we, I think we were down it, we were up and down through the whole meet very close and we did round six I believe I could be wrong how many rounds there were.
Speaker 2:But, uh, I opened the parachute up on the last round and they were waving the flag and I was under canopy thinking on I can't believe this, I fucking can't believe this. I just beat airspeed you know, who are my original idols at a skydiving competition. I mean, I was shocked, I was, I couldn't believe what was happening to me, you know, I was like it wasn't the super bowl right, where there's 100 million people watching or whatever. You know skydiving, obviously, we all know, if you're listening to this very small community, not a whole lot of people interested in it, but the people that are take it seriously and they want to be good. Um, you know, and I had just one, even one competition against who I consider the best skydivers on planet earth and and that was a huge that was, you know, one of those.
Speaker 1:You know I'll never, I'll never forget that so, uh, that brings up that memory, brings up another one for me that I'd like to hear your version of. So, um, in 1998, at the us nationals, we, uh, we lost that competition and I think it was. We had essentially done it to ourselves like we started. Um, we started, you know, losing at a certain point. And then I remember going back to the hotel, the Holiday Inn at the time in Casa Grande. We were all sitting at the hot tub and I remember somebody saying that it's over and we still had several, several rounds left. It's over, it's not going to happen. So, essentially, that decision, I couldn't believe what I was hearing at the time but and you know, I was being a new guy and slot, I wasn't going to say anything and, um, but I was. I was surprised to hear that coming out of somebody who, who, had a good deal of experience, coming out of their mouth.
Speaker 1:Anyway, it's uh, I think that the, the, that cancer of mentality pervaded, you know, know, the rest of us throughout that competition. Anyway, we lost that competition and uh, then, 99, we uh faced airspeed again at the us nationals. In it was a scott f sebastian and it was uh, right before the, uh, the year that we lost, airspeed had qualified to be the the us team so that next year they were going to the World Championships in Australia, right after that, nationals 99 in Sebastian. So anyway, we ended up beating them, but the story was awesome. I remember sitting next to you in the back bulkhead and I just told the story to some of the guys on the four-way team before they went to the indoor meet in Spain several months ago. But yeah, if you could tell that story, man, I'd love to hear it from your perspective.
Speaker 2:Okay. So here we are. We got beaten 98 by airspeed at the Nationals. Devastating loss, devastating. First time that the Golden Knights had lost in like 15 years. Right, the golden knights had dominated eight way, forever, five world championships in a row and all the nationals, and we got beat in 98 at in eloy. Oh, ouch, let me tell you that, hurt, hurt. Okay. So you know, we get back together, we go into 99. We do a full training year in 99. And back to Matt was talking about, we're in.
Speaker 1:Sebastian.
Speaker 2:Right, the weather's been. It was iffy pretty much the entire time.
Speaker 1:There was a hurricane that rolled through there just before right.
Speaker 2:Right, hurricane had rolled through so the weather was iffy. Anyway, it was a very close meet between us and airspeed. It came down to round 10, believe it or not. Airspeed was up by two points and, uh, take off in the airplane, huge thunderstorms moving in. Okay, huge thunderstorms, we take off anyway, like normally you wouldn't even take the airplane off. But it's around 10, they're trying to get this. It's golden nights and airspeed on the plane, on an otter, cruising up to altitude, giant um clouds all the way up to 15 000 feet on both sides of us and the tension was as thick inside the plane as it was outside, with the atmosphere totally totally so.
Speaker 2:Basically they're saying you know the pilots like look, I, we can't land you on the, we can't get you on the airport, it's covered up in clouds and um, so we're like we can, we can drop you, but y'all are going to land on this golf course. You land off the drop zone and airspeed could have said, hey, land the airplane, we're not jumping. You know, it's not a legitimate jump because we got to land on the you know drop zone for this to thing to work. And and Charlie Brown, who was a team leader, talked to Jack Jeffries and and and Jack Jeffries is like hey, and to this day, my hat's off to Jack Jeffries, cause he's like hey, we, we came to play, we came to, we came to do this and they were up by two points, so they would have won if we landed that airplane, they would have won.
Speaker 2:And uh, so we ended up getting out of that airplane. Uh, both teams agreed to jump. So we get out of that airplane and we have a, a decent jump, and airspeed, uh, they have their jump. And we land, land on the air you know the air on a golf course, and we go back to the hangar or packing tent to watch the video. They scored us first and I don't know what we scored on it, but then they scored airspeed second and they made a fantastic, flawless jump to the last what like five seconds, and they had a real quick issue on a—.
Speaker 1:We had 11s. It was box-box or something, right, yeah, I have no idea.
Speaker 2:All I know is at the time for those listening that are into RW out there it was two points per bust, so he busts two points. The two busts would be four points. Now it's just one point. And so they ended up busting twice literally in the last five seconds, and we ended up beating them by, I think, one point and it was a huge victory. Even though we weren't going to the world meet, we, we beat airspeed in 99. It was a good comeback. You know it didn't mean a whole bunch in in in the uh spectrum of of going to the world meet, but it was a. It was a big victory and it was a great. It was a great meet and it was awesome to that uh, airspeed even got out of the plane with us to finish it up legitimately.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was, man. That was a great meeting. That's one of the highlights that I remember too. It was a huge confidence builder for me afterwards because it took, I remember, doing a lot of visualization before those last few rounds of that competition and we had a point when we were down those you know last few rounds of that competition and we had a point when we were down.
Speaker 1:I remember that same mindset that, uh, you know, crept into us, like you know, spread through the team like a cancer in 98 at national, started creeping up here too, and I can just remember I was like we cannot let this happen again, man.
Speaker 1:So I remember having maybe an over positive, you know mindset or something. But I remember being on that plane, you know, sitting right next to you with our backs up against the rear bulkhead and just looking out, because it was a beautiful right, it was the end of the day, it was, you know, beautiful sunset in between all the clouds and stuff, and and I just remember smiling and there was a lot of tension on the aircraft. But I remember the the both of us, you know, you and I were just back there visualizing, you know, totally focused on on the job to be done and, uh, we were smiling. I was just totally enjoying the moment. It looked like you were too, and I remember jack jeffrey's looking back at us and looking at us with this weird look on his face like what the hell are you, dickhead, smiling?
Speaker 2:yeah, actually that in free fall there we we would. We're free falling right next to this giant cloud. You know, the whole time we were out of the cloud, but uh, I'll never forget that and I was like oh damn, we're like right up against the clouds here.
Speaker 2:You know, those Florida clouds are like perfect columns. Some of them just go straight up and uh, I was like man, we're having a good jump, but it was. Uh, yeah, it was a jump I'll never forget for sure. Yeah, for sure, and I think I learned that competition. It was like man, we're having a good jump, but it was a jump I'll never forget for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. And I think I learned that competition was like you know, no matter how bad you're doing, you've got to believe. You know you're in this competition through 10 rounds and you've just got to believe you know that it's possible so that you can continue performing your best. You know, until the competition's all the way over, you can't predetermine what that outcome is going to be Like. You can't say, oh, we're four points down, there's no way we can make it back, kind of deal. And that's kind of what I learned about myself and about us.
Speaker 1:You know, together as a team, and I think, yeah, we, you know we achieved a higher level of confidence collectively there. And it was man. Yeah, that was really cool. Are there any other uh highlights for uh eight or four-way formation skydiving uh training and championships, like you guys did uh really well. Uh, early 2000s right, was it 2002 when you guys went to mobuj? You know like you guys had a successful time as a four-way team for a while there well, we, in end of 99, you know, we did a team switch out.
Speaker 2:We, we built a new team in 2000 and, uh, we had issues throughout the entire time during the year. We had injuries, we had things that just uh, ended up not being idea, ideal for winning, uh, you know, winning the, the nationals. And we ended up going to nationals in paris 2000 with a team with, basically, we picked up paul rafferty and trevor mccarthy at the very last second to fill the squad. Is that right, matt?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I left, then that's when I had my issues and left the team.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we ended up having a close meet in 2000, and that was an on year, it was for the next world meet, and we got beat by Airspeed, who did virtually no training, I believe maybe a few jumps, if nothing, uh, if no jumps at all. But we got beat by airspeed in 2000 at paris and that was a hefty blow because we were pretty much training we, we didn't have a full team the entire year but uh, it was, it was hard to take getting beat there. So in 2001, 2001,. We decided we, we had some people leave the team and we put uh, decided to do four way. And uh, that was myself, uh, john John Hoover, eric Heinzheimer and Chris Talbert and we ended up doing, uh, switching over to four way to try to beat airspeed in four-way Did you guys have Cap with you at the time shooting video yeah.
Speaker 2:Sean Capogrico ended up being our video guy for that. So we put a four-way program together because we didn't have eight people to do an eight-way team at the time the Golden Knights. We just didn't have the people to do it. So it was a long shot. We just didn't have the people to do it. So it was a long shot. Long shot to try to get into the four-way arena with teams out there.
Speaker 2:So we ended up 2001, four-way nationals at Eloy. We very, very close meet with airspeed and we ended up getting beat by one or two points very last jump. That was hard but honestly, like personally, I did not expect to beat airspeed at that meet, but we, we kept, kept it really close. I think we were tied going in the last round or maybe one point down, but we, uh, we got, we got beat by a couple points. We actually did pretty good. I was happy with the performance. To be honest with you, I was not expecting to win 2001, uh, and then 2002. So didn't, you know, went back to training, uh, four way in 2002. But by that time then magic had arrived officially and that was solly, uh, solly and gary and doug park, I believe, and uh, joey jones and uh, that nationals was in chicago and um, we, it was a total long shot at that point, um winning, because they were, uh, magic was on fire, they were killing it, they were they were training hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to land, oh yeah, yeah and uh, we went into that meet uh with with low low expectations to be honest with you, I did not have high expectations why were the? Expectations low, is it? Well, because their averages, that magic were pushing out, were, I think they were pretty much favored, kind of to win and you caught wind of what those averages? Oh, yeah, yeah, I think that we had some america's cup meets or something.
Speaker 1:But oh, that's right. We did have a lot more competitions then, yeah, the america's cup. I forgot about that. So you guys had it, had a good idea. It's not like it.
Speaker 2:You know, can be now, with not as many competitions, where you're kind of, you know, guessing what people are doing by the time you get to right actual meet yeah, I did not expect to walk away with a victory there, but we, you know, put our heads down and and made it work and that meet actually came down to one jump, and then I'll talk about that one jump, because it's one jump in probably 15 000 rw jumps I've done, but it was as close. You know, you never have a perfect jump, right right, yeah I mean, how many times do you have a perfect jump?
Speaker 1:I can't remember one and if you say you have a perfect jump in your line, because there is no such thing, as I was just watching the uh, the world record eight-way jump that we did in uh beaufort this last year, and there's so many problems with that, so many places where we could have gotten a lot more out of it.
Speaker 2:But yeah, to your point yeah, you and uh we had I don't know which round it was, it was on the first day but uh, it was around four or five and we had a, a jump that I wish I could remember, but I'm not going to try to right now, but it was as good a jump as we could have done. It was probably one of the best jumps I've ever done Again, not perfect, but we ended up beating airspeed by, I think, about five on that, and magic by three or four, and it sent us to the top of the leaderboard after that jump and we ended up winning uh, beating airspeed and magic in 2002, and that's a long time ago. She has 23 years ago. Who cares? Right, we should have this discussion a long time ago but anyway we it was a huge deal.
Speaker 2:We won in four way. I never expected to be a four way national champion, uh, but we, we did win and it was, uh, it was, you know, uh, uh, a great meet and yeah, we ended up securing the spot for the world meet in 2003.
Speaker 1:So training for that? Then you guys had to train out of porters, right, Pilatus porters for the competition out in Mobuge, france. That's where it was right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'll speed it up real quick. We did, I don't know. We probably did about 500 otter jumps or porter jumps that year, because….
Speaker 1:Trained out at Coolidge right. Didn't you guys go out to?
Speaker 2:Coolidge that year, because trying out at coolidge, right, didn't you guys, uh, go out to coolidge, yep, yep, coolidge. And um, I think we did some chicago porter jumps. We had our, we had a porter at the time there, golden knights did so we did have access to that. But, uh, we went to 2003 world meet and in maubeuge and no, no, it was gap okay.
Speaker 2:And we did get beat by the French, pretty handily Got beat by, I think, 13 points. We had our best meet out of a porter ever, but the French were just fucking on fire.
Speaker 1:And they would train out of that aircraft primarily. I think at the time the four-way team would. Anyway, I'm not sure about the eight-way team, but I think on the nights, and I think you know otters were kind of the were were the industry standard, you know, as far as competitions went. So I think you know at the time, you know you guys were probably training out of that for the most part, so that I'm sure that had something to do with it, right, you know that.
Speaker 1:oh yeah, we actually got because it's uh that, that aircraft it's, uh, the doors on uh right, yeah, on the right side, and it's uh the airspeed's slower right, so it's a lot mushier coming out the door. So that adds a whole, you know, new, uh new layer to the competition there yeah, for sure we got beat on the exit.
Speaker 2:I mean, in free fall we were pretty close to him, but out out the door we were getting getting beat on every jump. So we you know I wasn't unhappy with the, the results, I didn't, um, you know, wanted to win. But the, the french were just, they had a great team and they and they finished that. They finished that meet with the highest four-way average ever, on top of it being out of a porter.
Speaker 1:Did you see any of the rounds when the French team was competing here last week at the indoor US Nationals? Incredible man.
Speaker 2:Stuff like I've never seen before. Really Did not see. It's really really good yeah.
Speaker 1:And, of course, our Golden Knights, who were the gold medalists at the Nation, uh, at the uh, the the nationals, and incredible performance as well, and it's, you know, great to see them. Finally, you know, starting to uh, to gain some, some traction, man, it's really cool. Um, any other competition highlights you can think of, like, I know, for me, you know, being on the uh, the 2012 team where we won the world championships in Dubai. That was huge. Um, you know, maybe you can give your your perspective on that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know um through from 2002, let's see here um moving forward. I spent some I kind of or after the world meet in 2003,. I took a break and went to the tandem team for about three years and and did the tandem team on the golden Knights, took a break from RW and then uh came back, uh, for 2006, 2007, a little bit, and uh, let's see here Then 2008,. We went to the world meet in in Moe Bush. We put that team together, we got, and then that we went to the world meet in in maubeuge.
Speaker 1:we put that team together, we got, and then that we did not win tracks right with uh john and uh yeah, some other folks from it was. It was like some other folks from fire. Right, we had a doug park on the team and um, thomas hughes yeah, and we, we, we got beat there in 2008.
Speaker 2:And then, uh, 2010 was the next world meet. We got, we put an eight-way team back together for 2010 and then then we got beat.
Speaker 1:Matt was there, right, you were, that was in russia in russia, and it was at the mensalinsk one in russia where it was like super, it was super hot there. It was like uh, unusually hot, and I think there was a volcanic eruption somewhere it was on fire that was on fire. That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:But yeah, we were jumping through smoke and yeah, the the weather conditions there were less than ideal, for sure so, the all through all this, I had not won a world meet, right, like, I'd won some national championships, four way and eight way, but I had not won a world meet. You know, and now I started second guessing myself. You know, is this? You know it's not all me, but you know what can I do? Better, to, to, to, to get better. And you know, I, I wanted to win a world meet and it was. It was felt elusive and uh, so that brings us to dubai in 2012. So we, we, we had a good team in 2011.
Speaker 1:It was solid, we kept it together oh yeah, we won the World Cup in St Louis, germany, and that was huge for us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was the first victory over the French in eight-way for me at the World Cup and I believe well, matt, technically in slot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I had gotten back and I came back to the team and got back in slot. Well, I came back to the eight-way team at the end of 2002. And then, yeah, through the various, you know evolutions of four-way, slash, eight-way, but anyway yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was a period of time. There was a period of time basically between 98 and 2012, where the Golden Knight eight-way was not winning world meets, and that was our job Through various challenges, personnel and that kind of thing meets.
Speaker 1:You know it was our job through various challenges, personnel and that kind of thing you know overturned during that time. It helped us out where we uh ended up getting permanent slots on the team. You know, thanks to ike and you know some other people like ike nyer, who was the sergeant major on the team, and tony dill and other people who really went to bat for trying to get us fenced in so that you could train to be a world-class competitor and you could maintain people on the team who had that that training and experience so that you could go on and be successful. But up until that point people were getting cherry-picked. Even if you know we didn't have any inner team issues, we had people getting cherry-picked for, uh, you know, duty assignments elsewhere around the world with other units. So all that kind of stuff you know kind of led to this 15 year dry period where we really didn't gain any traction, win any meat. So yeah, those were the the dark days, for sure right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was tough and you know, on a on a team level, it's tough and on a personal level, you're kind of looking at yourself like, okay, what's it going to take personally for me to help this team get back on top? And, uh, for, for me personally, I just figured out that, you know, okay, it's not all me, but it's it's some of me. You know we're a team but you know I have to get better personally to to get on top, to get help get the golden knights back on top. And a lot of it came down to just, uh, to be honest, the mental, the mental game. You know I could, I could skydive, but you know, but when it came down to right at that, you know when you need to do it right and you have to do it, the best is that gonna. You know it's more like I say, you know, at that level and at a world meet, it's it's really 90 percent mental if not 100 percent mental.
Speaker 2:you know where's your mindset. And going in, going to a meet and uh in, during that, 2010, 2011, I started. I started personally. I revamped my whole way at looking at training and put this out there. I looked at what I did was I started looking at every jump like a roll me jump, literally from you know, january. We're training jump number one.
Speaker 2:I'm going to do the same thing. I'm going to go through the same mental process. I'm going to dirt dive the same exact way. I'm going to be breathing the same exact way I breathe all the way up every single jump that I do during the, during, you know, the training period, which is maybe what you eight, nine hundred, a thousand jumps. I'm going to do the same exact thing. And I realized that really, mentally, I needed to get the mental aspect of competition and getting in the zone and you hear about athletes getting in the zone and I finally figured out how to get in the zone. It took a long time, folks. I mean it took years of competing, but you know I'm not sure what everybody else did, but you know the mental aspect of it I got a hold of and going into the Dubai meet was huge. What do you think, oh?
Speaker 1:yeah, totally, I remember. You know you could almost feel the energy switch when you know, and I'm sure, like people on the team, the younger guys looked up to you as a leader well everybody did, you know.
Speaker 1:So I think you doing that I'm sure had some kind of effect, and I really hadn't thought about it, you know this way since, but I'm sure it had some kind of effect. And I do remember feeling some kind of energy shift, you know, like, okay, you know, and it was a lot of different things that led up to that. So we had been together, the core of us had been together as a team for a while, so we had, you know, started, you know, mounting a good amount of experience together. And then the other thing was, yeah, that mental switch. We started getting serious, we started believing that we could do it. I remember, when you put up the picture of the Palm Island, dubai, and the team room and, uh, you know, that was a really cool thing because I remember everybody was like, you know, you could look at that every time. It was right underneath the, uh, the, the big screen video that we were using to do our debriefing. Uh, you know, after every jump out at Larnberg Maxon airport, and I can just, uh, you know, remember that that added something concrete. That was like, okay, this is, this is happening. You know we need to be ready for this, and.
Speaker 1:But I do remember that that shift, and I remember my personal visualization it was by the time that we got there.
Speaker 1:I had visualized so much and so clearly that it felt like everything in my, in my body and my being, you know, was almost kind of automatic, because I'd seen it, I'd felt it, I'd visualize it so much that, in so clear detail that the you know that I'd seen it, I'd felt it, I'd visualized it so much that, in so clear detail that you know that I'd really felt as if I'd already been there.
Speaker 1:So things just felt like they kind of, you know, led us to that. Before that, I think there were, we had some flashes of brilliance and then we had some, you know, some not so great jumps too, and I think part of the whole equation is just being consistent over 10 rounds, right, would you agree? Yeah, for sure, totally, um, yeah, but that was a magical time. If you can talk about that experience in 2012, you know, just, you know kind of paint the picture of what it was like being in Dubai and and just that whole competition experience yeah, like some, at that point in time, 2012, my competition experience of being a, being a competitor had literally had come to a head.
Speaker 2:Uh, yeah, I was. We were there in dubai. It was the pretty much the biggest parachute meet the world has ever seen. Right, dubai puts on a huge show. They had all the events there. They had the most competitors there that have ever been. They had all the events were going on, so it was a huge. It was a huge deal, you know, and uh, the pressure was unreal. I I remember like not my intestines, my organs weren't working right for like 10 days it was. We were only doing one jump a day on average. They had wins and as multiple different uh, events going on.
Speaker 2:So we were only doing one jump, a jump a day, and the french were, they were on fire, they were, they were doing well and and it was an unbelievable meet to walk out as the winner and, yeah, I'll never forget it, it was a huge deal for us to win that meet. It was very close. I think we had one really really good jump and beat the french by I think about four points, I think, on one jump. That gave us a good buffer, uh, but we got out on. I'll never forget this. We got out on round 10 and it was taj mahal. Matt, what's the number for taj? Nine? Okay, we got out on a nine. I don't know the numbers in letters, folks, I go by the names. That's how we used to do it in old school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we got out and it was number nine out the door and myself and my peace partner, Mikey LaRoche, almost ran into the back piece and I'll never forget almost hitting them. Had to do some funky body flying to avoid them and I was staring right down at that palm, like staring at that palm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for those who don't know, we were jumping over the, uh, the Palm Island, and we were landing on the outer ring over, kind of uh, if you're looking out, uh, you know, through uh, from the, from the shore side, you know, if you're looking out toward, toward the palm and going up the, uh, uh, you know, like the trunk portion, uh, we were kind of off to the left on the outer ring. But, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I, we almost, we almost had a major crash out the door, but we did not hit and we brought it back together and and uh, ended up having a pretty good skydive and then, uh, I think I don't, I don't remember the final, like going into that round. I think we were only up by one or two. Yeah, I don't remember exactly either.
Speaker 2:Uh, but it was close, but we ended up winning and and and. That was huge and the weight on my shoulders personally, and I'm sure Matt is the same way. The Golden Knights had not won a world meet in any way in years. We have to back that up to what 97?. Yeah 97, which. I wasn't there. Matt was there, matt was there. But to finally get a world meet under my belt after over a decade of being a relative or competitor was a huge victory.
Speaker 1:Yeah it was huge for me too. It was probably the biggest one for me because we were talking about the time that I left the team. I had done some things where I wasn't exactly an asset to the team you know, to put it lightly so I was asked to you know, for the record for the record.
Speaker 1:Matt never did anything that we didn't do. Okay, but we're all guilty. Anyway, I ended up leaving the team for a couple of years so I felt like I had played a uh, uh, a big part in the team's downfall. So when I got back to the team, you know, I'd kind of made it a personal mission. I was like I'm going to do whatever is possible for me to help the team get back on top.
Speaker 1:So that was an incredible moment for sure, and you know, to be able to share that with you and the other guys on the team. And we had a special crew on it. Yeah, I'll take another charge. Thanks, charge, thanks. We're drinking a little bit, a little bit of bourbon, a little bit of bourbon here. Yep, thanks to uh john denunzio for my uh, 50th birthday. Let's see, we'll give a shout out to the uh. It's uh. If you can look at the label there, I think this is a veteran owned uh sergeants of valor bourbon. Those were some really good stuff. Yeah, um, yeah.
Speaker 1:So anyway, yeah, that was an incredible meet and uh, yeah, tell me, tell me how it felt for you. I remember landing and I remember the French landed and we all took a big picture with everybody. And I just remember, you know we had a great, great performance on that jump and I don't think we knew the scores yet, but we're pretty confident. You know that seemed to be the vibe out there, but everybody was cool man. It was great to take that picture, hang out and talk a little bit. But one of the cool things about that meet is that we got to take a speedboat, you know, from the landing area all the way back to the main portion of the airport where the runway was over by Jumeirah Beach and but it was just magical, man, you know taking that boat ride every time, but it was especially magical on that last jump. Can you talk about that?
Speaker 2:we have a good jump, we land and you know, we're feeling, feeling pretty good and, like matt said, there's you have to take boat ride back and uh, it was huge. It was huge for for everybody for sure, because that was the first world, uh, world meet that we were thinking that we won pretty much on the biggest stage at the time in skydiving and Dubai, uh, as the first time they had like an all events world meet. And uh, yeah, I remember thinking, well, I finally arrived. It only took me 14 years. So, if you're out there and you're skydiving and you're you're wanting to be good, uh, trust me, you know, sometimes it's it's a long road and uh, to to the top. And you know, don't, don't sell yourself short if you're not getting there right away. Keep on trying and and reworking things and figure it out, because it's, it's there if you, if you really want it yeah and the uh.
Speaker 1:The wins are validating to your point there. But for sure, even when I look back, it's less about those victories and it's more about the people you're with, the dynamics you're with and the experience. It sounds cheesy, but the journey essentially but definitely the wins give you some validation for all of that effort that was put into it. For sure, we're going to take a quick break and when we come back we'll talk about some of Kurt's other things that he did while he was on the team, like tandem instruction, that kind of stuff. You got it, we'll be right back, all right. All right, we're back. All right, we're back. What are some notable tandems? Vips, et cetera, like Tiger Woods, channing Tatum, bush, family Tandems. You know that kind of stuff when you're on the tandem section that you can talk about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I spent a total of about five years back and forth from the RW team and I did some about five years on the tandem team, years on the tandem team, and it's a great job as a as a tandem master, uh, to be on the golden knights and doing doing tandems for well. First of all, doing tandems is great because you know you're, you're uh introducing parachuting, skydiving, whatever you want to call it to somebody that's never done it before, and and they're some of the, the best jumps you can do as a skydiver is it takes somebody on a jump, you know I love it.
Speaker 2:You know, I I don't currently actually I've never actually technically had a uspa tandem rating.
Speaker 2:I'll tell them yeah I've got like 1500, tand500, tandems and I got a Tandem rating from in 94, I believe I got my Tandem rating but it was the old Bill Booth Tandem rating where he gave you a little card signed off on it. So, on the Golden Knights, when I was going back and forth from the RW team to the, the tandem team, uh, I technically didn't have a tandem rating. I found that out like it's not a big deal but uh, I uh really enjoyed the time on the tandem team. The the most memorable I think was being uh, george bush seniors. Uh, I was.
Speaker 2:We were supposed to do an aff jump with george bush senior and I was the primary instructor for that and this is what time frame this would have been actually. This would have been like 2004, 2005, yeah, he was turning 80, I believe, and he wanted to do uh one last AFF jump in College Station, texas, and we did training at Fort Bragg in the wind tunnel for three or four days and he, you know he did, he was just doing just fine and then, uh, shortly that we moved the operation down to College Station and his goal was to do his fifth. He wanted to do his fifth jump on his own, so he could technically have.
Speaker 2:Army airborne wings. Oh cool, yeah, and that would have been his fifth jump, and so we did all the training with him and he— there you go, is Brent leaving? That's all right. So the day of the jump, he—well, unfortunately, ronald Reagan had passed away and the president had Bush. Sr had been back and forth to California for the funeral and you know we started going through some of his emergency procedures, you know just like we had had been doing, uh, throughout the the weeks we were training with him.
Speaker 1:So is that like a hanging harness type deal?
Speaker 2:uh, we did, we had, we did the hanging harness, but the morning the jump he wasn't. We just kind of you know, let him act, pretend like he was in free fall, and we started showing him some, some the pictures of the malfunctions and whatnot, and he was not picking it up at all. He, you know, he was a little bit lost and I was like, oh, this is not good.
Speaker 2:So we had a meeting, you know, with, without him, and it and it came down to you know, do, do, do we want to do, we want to do an AFF with him in this environment. It was not a drop zone, it was basically a field in front of his library. There's, there's a very uh active freeway. On one side there was, there were clouds, there were winds, uh, it was not, you know, but basically it came down to this you know, if this was my, you know, grandpa or, or family member or anybody, you know, do we want to try to get him out of the airplane and get him on the ground safely?
Speaker 1:I mean, he he could, he could walk, but you know he was was a little bit—, but were his cognitive abilities sharp enough to be able to handle if he had a parachute malfunction? Yeah, so let me ask you this question Before he went out to Reagan's funeral was he showing any signs of, you know, maybe age-related slower cognitive function at that point, or did you guys not see any of that until he came back? So we had him in?
Speaker 2:the tunnel at fort bragg and he was doing fine and we, well, you know, did a bunch of procedure, procedural, you know, training, and he was doing fine and it just kind of like all came together. Uh, you know, at that day I don't think the guy you know he had enough sleep or or whatnot, but he, he was not what I would say.
Speaker 2:Uh, you know, ready to make a jump I got you, so there was no doubt about it, that we were going to get a parachute over his head, right, you know, we had my. It was myself and and kb, uh, that were going to be the the instructor. You know the aff instructors we had two people on them, but, uh, once the parachute came out, what? Whether he was going to be able to to, to get down on the ground in one piece was was the real question. So, uh, man, I don't know how many people tell the president no, this isn't going to happen.
Speaker 2:I bet that was a tough decision to make. It wasn't mine, but you know it was the commander of the parachute team who made the ultimate decision.
Speaker 1:Right, but they're also listening. Since you were one of his supposed to be one of his AFF instructors, I'm sure they were taking your consultation seriously.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like again, like if it was my grandfather. No way am I going to let this guy get out of an airplane and try to land on his own yeah. So he did, and he ended up doing a tandem with somebody else, which was cool so Did Mike take him on that one? It was Brian Chanel. Okay, yeah, but it was great. You know he's hanging out with a former president and american hero.
Speaker 1:Really it was fantastic experience talking to him and yeah, for those younger folks that might not know about his history, you know, look him up and uh, look up his uh, his uh war. You know service's a. It's pretty incredible. Yeah, um, but uh, yeah, going on about that uh experience, did you have anything to do? Were you shooting video on that jump when Brian took him up?
Speaker 2:We actually tagged him.
Speaker 1:KB and myself tagged him on the jump.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was uneventful. He landed, he got his jump in. Unfortunately, he did not get to do it on his own, which he actually really wanted to do. I mean, it was a hard sell to get him to accept the tandem option.
Speaker 1:But also, didn't Barbara have something to say about the whole deal, Wasn't she like man, if you guys mess this up, he gets hurt Pretty much.
Speaker 2:yeah, she has a very strong personality and, you know, being around her in the little, the little part that I was, you know, I, I, we did not want to let this guy get hurt for sure, yeah, yeah, but everything went off well and it was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he did the tan experience it was.
Speaker 2:It was a huge event and you and he still got to jump and he was happy about that. I think he went on to make a couple more tandem. I think one more tandem jump, but it was a great experience just being around somebody.
Speaker 1:The history of George Bush Sr, for sure I'll bet I only got to meet him briefly when he came to the team that one time for one of his jumps. He was a big supporter of the team and he was very instrumental in helping the team to get funding for the building that the Golden Knights are now in at Fort Bragg, nice you know newer facility, but yeah, he was great. Also, if anybody's in town and want to go tour the trophy room there, you can, and he's got some things that are in there some the jumpsuit that that he wore on some of those jumps and his tandem gear and like his boots and jacket and some other things. But yeah, super, super cool to to be able to have, you know, met him briefly and yeah, he's an American hero for sure. What about some? Some other ones? I remember you talking about Channing Tatum, but you didn't know who he was at the time.
Speaker 2:Can you talk about that? Yeah, so we're out in Yuma doing the Tandem team. Does we set up a program basically, with the Hollywood folks? Fly our airplane uh into LA and pick up uh jumper people that wanted to jump, and a lot of them were more stars in one aspect or another. We had a long, a long list and Channing Tatum came out and he was, uh happened to be, like the last jumper of the day and and I remember, uh we were sitting there like who wants you know who wants to take? He was not a star at the time at all, like nobody knew who this guy was, he was just making his way.
Speaker 2:I think this would have been about just mid 2009 right 2009 and uh you know, somebody else took him on a jump and it was like wow, he ended up being a big time star.
Speaker 1:That's cool, yeah, and what about Tiger Woods?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So we did. Tiger came out to Laurenburg, which is our main training area, and did a tandem. He wasn't supposed to be out there. It wasn't publicized at all. You probably have not seen anything. Most people haven't because they at the time, I think, he was in contract deal with Nike and whatnot and he was not allowed to do what he was doing.
Speaker 2:Oh, so it was kind of a renegade jump yeah yeah, but he came out with his entourage but we got to spend the day with him and, uh, I will say that fuck is probably a second favorite word. It's yes or no, cause the guy is totally laid back when he gets away from his entourage. He's awesome dude. I know some people don't like tiger woods for this or that reason, but he's, he's a great dude and um, it was, it was fun to to hang out with him what are some of?
Speaker 1:did you have any memorable conversations or you know any, any highlights to that?
Speaker 2:well, ironically, we're sitting, we're sitting on the airplane together and you know we're climbing altitude and we're just kind of kicking back and talking. And he had not been married yet. He had not married Ellen, his Swedish hot supermodel wife yet. And for everybody out there listening, I don't have a great experience with marriage. I've tried twice. It didn't work out either time. And I was joking about him At the time. He was making a hundred million bucks a year, he had a private jet. And I'm like Tiger dude, are you sure you want to get married? And he's like, yeah, yeah, I'm like dude, I'm telling you, dude, enjoy the ride. You got you making 100 million bucks a year and you got a private jet. You're the most popular guy in the world and essentially, you're telling don't do it.
Speaker 1:I told him not to get married.
Speaker 2:I told him not to get married and he's like, oh, you know, she's gorgeous, this and that, and I was like, yeah, okay, all right, whatever. And uh, sure enough. Well, it didn't work out great. But you know, I'm I'm not pointing any fingers at tiger, but uh, he's, he's an awesome dude. Yeah, I'd be happy to make another jump or just have some drinks with him, for sure yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 1:Any other uh notables that you can think of, didn't you take Robin Mead on a tandem?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we did another jump with President Bush in I forget what year. We did another jump with him in Kennebunkport, maine which, ironically, it was the hardest tandem jump I've ever done by far. It was a tight area, right. Yeah, it was. It was hardest tandem jump I've ever done by far. It's tight area, right. Yeah, it was right. Uh, at the, at the church, and there were no, basically, uh, originally we had said, okay, if we can't do a practice jump, if we can't do a practice jump on this jump, we're not going to do the jump right, practice jump with him or without him.
Speaker 2:Without him, okay, like just just to make sure the landing area was feasible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because the spot was maybe maybe a mile or two out over the atlantic and you know, the winds were coming in, coming from from uh, off the shore and and the weather was not great and we did. You know, the command's vision was if we don't do a practice jump, we're not going to jump, do a jump, you know, we're just going to shut this thing down. So we didn't do a practice jump. So then the next day the weather started clearing a little bit and I was jumping with Robin Mead and uh, uh, mike Elliott was jumping with the president and we decided, uh, you know, woke up that day and the weather looked did not look good and they decided we were going to do the jump anyway, even though we didn't do the practice jump. So uh went out and you know, we got on and got on the airplane and circling, looking for weather in terms of it, for it to clear up, and we had a tight window to jump. They had literally 50 cameras from every news organization out there.
Speaker 1:On the ground or in helicopters On the ground. Yeah, so you didn't have any air traffic to compete with. Okay, it was all.
Speaker 2:It was all weather. You know weather issues. So actually robin mead ended up arriving late and, uh, almost too late for her to make a jump. She got there right in time. She didn't get a ground, she got a very little.
Speaker 1:We did the ground course basically for the tandem on the airplane I refresh my memory, she was a cnn or a fox news cnn I think, I think cnn, yeah and uh.
Speaker 2:so I was first out and, uh, ike, the sergeant major of the team, was spotting and I was looking out the window. I was like man, this is we're out over the ocean, bro, you know, and there are no outs right. There's only one shot, there is only one direction you're going to hit, because the the shoreline is all rocks Right and then there is a little little bit of stretch of of grass there.
Speaker 1:Going swimming in those cold waters probably wouldn't be a good option.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they had boats out but you know we don't want to land in the goddamn water, you know. So we end up. We're at 13,000 feet and literally in the last 30 seconds that cloud bank cleared and they're like we're going. You know, hot target. Let's get in the door. Eric Heinzheimer is doing video and I trusted Ike on the spot. I'm like all right, man, you got to. You know, get this spot right. And he nailed it and we got out and it was. It was as a tandem master. You know, getting disconnected at the right time when you're when you're landing the parachute, it looks cool. You don't have to do it standing up, you know, usually slide.
Speaker 1:Elaborate what you're talking about, because people might not understand what's disconnecting because people might not understand what's disconnecting.
Speaker 2:So you know, as a tandem master, you, you, uh, there's four points, points of attachment. You know, under canopy you detach the two points that are about the hip area and then they're hanging by the, the two upper points, and to to disconnect. Sometimes you know you've got to do something funky or landsliding, and I happen to have my best tandem landing and this is with Robin, yeah with Robin being in front of like 50k, it was like a world me jump. To be honest with you, I was like stressed out.
Speaker 2:I was like oh man geez, yeah, and we landed perfectly and I disconnected her and literally, she, just literally walked away from the parachute. You know, I got it, I, I got it, just right. Which? I normally never did right, like I didn't slide in or hey, hold on a second stand there and I'll disconnect you all right, but it was just a seamless transition.
Speaker 1:It looked great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's cool I looked a lot better than I normally do it on that particular jump in front of cameras. So I gotta, I gotta was she?
Speaker 1:uh, I don't remember like the the footage. So was she um? Was she going straight into an interview from there? Yeah, she went walk, so that was the man that must have been a cool like entrance slash transition to.
Speaker 2:It couldn't have been any better and, like I said, I just got lucky.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. That's really cool. If you can think of any other ones, let me know. If not, we'll move on and talk about some funny stories that you can tell without implicating anyone during trips with any of the Golden Knight teams you've been on Like. One of the ones that comes to my mind is a pink panty patrol incident. Can you uh talk about that one?
Speaker 2:okay, yeah, pink panty patrol and I think that I don't know where they came from new york, maybe it was a ranch yeah they were uh all female four-way team, right, I think yeah that, whatever the pink panty patrol was, you had to wear a pair of pink panties on a jump they're like granny panties, right. Well, no panties, they were the regular ones yeah, like, like you know, g-string was acceptable, totally yeah, whatever pink panties you had.
Speaker 1:So you know, I thought they had some special ones made, though it's like, uh, no, no, they didn't, okay, I don't think so, go ahead.
Speaker 2:I thought they had some special ones made, though with like a no, they didn't. Okay, I don't think so go ahead. I'll let you tell the story well, this would have been our, I think, a four-way jump in sebastian, yeah, and I was convinced to wear a pink, a pair of pink panties on the outside of my gold knight and do not convinced.
Speaker 1:It was this volunteer or was this? Uh? No, they were like hey, go do this.
Speaker 2:I was like okay, I'll do it, you know. Uh, so I put put a pair of pink panties on my just set the stage a little bit before that.
Speaker 1:So they would. They did every round in these uh pink panties that were pulled up and, you know, as part of their stick as a team right right, just something that helped them stand out and have some fun, and they were wearing pink panties over their jumpsuits and over the leg straps on the parachutes.
Speaker 2:Right, so you could see the pink panties.
Speaker 1:Right yeah so.
Speaker 2:I did round 10, a four-way, with a pair of pink panties. And I got back to Fort Bragg and they're like yeah, eisenbarger, you gotta go see this art major. And I was like for what? And they're like just go in there. So I walked in you know, parade, rest in front of this art major. He's like what the hell are you doing? I'm like what's, what do you mean? So our major, he was like why are you wearing pink panties on the outside of your gold my jumpsuit? I was like, well, I was just like you know, hey, this is got caught up in the camaraderie of the sport. Didn't want to say no.
Speaker 1:Winning hearts and minds, man yeah winning hearts and minds and panties.
Speaker 2:So I got yelled at a little bit for the pink panties, but it worked out all right. I kept my job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember you going in there. You've, uh, you've, you've got a unique sense of humor and uh, I think it's helped you. Like it was almost maddening to me while we were on the team because you would, whenever we got into any kind of trouble, you would always, you know, to be like water off the duck's back for you, because you kind of use humor to deflect. Is that something that's always been part of your operating procedure since you were young, or is that something you developed?
Speaker 2:well, yeah, I mean you can't take life too seriously. Lee at, you know you just kind of gotta go with uh, what feels comfortable and right around the, the people you're with, and, um, humor is important. You got to kind of laugh it off. You can't take anything too seriously, you know you you know, even in this sport, you you take it seriously, but at the same time you know it's like you know, in the big, in the big scope of things.
Speaker 2:During my job I took it very seriously right, you know as a golden knight doing, doing this job, and for for a lot of years. Uh, I, I, I wanted to do, do things right and and make a good impression, um, but, uh, but at the same time, you got to have a little bit of fun yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:As chris talbert used say, we're not solving world hunger here. We're not curing cancer, we're skydiving for a living you know what I mean. So yeah I mean that's a good approach to be, you know, just to have a sense of humor about things. But at the same time.
Speaker 2:hey, you have a great job, right For sure. You have a job that some people don't want to have anything to do with. You know, there's a lot of people that I met in the Army, that some serious dudes, that don't want to have anything to do with jumping. They jump because they have to.
Speaker 1:But you know, yeah, it's a means to an end, it's a tactical insertion to get those guys to the office Right, but yeah, that's just a great uh great outlook to have and I've always appreciated that uh about you and wish that I could have have more of that.
Speaker 2:You know, I think I'm a bit more serious of a person pretty sure you do, oh yeah, well, now I think you know with that.
Speaker 1:With your assistance, I've been able to develop that over the years as well you gotta tell a story about.
Speaker 2:you gotta tell a story about about what's the bar in Yuma?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I never thought I'd be talking about this publicly, but, yeah, there was a time where, yeah, I would get a little over-inebriated.
Speaker 2:I was drunk.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was drunk and I was sitting next to the dance floor and I think we had had somebody cooked some out at Yuma. You know, it was pretty cool. We were living in the barracks out there. But Yuma I think John Hoover used to call it pirate ship because we're out in the middle of the desert, yuma Proving Grounds, and you know you've got to travel some distance to get to the town of Yuma and to get some restaurants and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:So, anyway, we made some, somebody, we made some. Uh, somebody was making some. You know, we'd all kind of get together and hang out at the barracks and, you know, go out back behind the barracks where we could, uh, you like, grill outside and that kind of stuff. So somebody's making some mexican stuff, some rice, and you know I ate a bunch of rice and this is back in my, you know, trying to get big kind of body bodybuilding wannabe days, and uh, but uh, you know, so I just crammed a bunch of that down and then, you know, the drinks were on top of that, we ended up going to johnny's right johnny's johnny's and uh, yep, it was right next to the dance floor.
Speaker 1:I remember not feeling so hot like I'm up against this, this stool, and that's that's to put it lightly. So I'm kind of swaying and I'm, like you know, trying to fight off the the urge to vomit. But I'm like, man, I got this, I got this and whatever you know weird kind of mental state that I was in at the time.
Speaker 2:Let me take over from here. So Matt is on the dance floor of this place called Johnny's, which is the main spot in Yuma right, the main spot in Yuma, there's a hundred people out there dancing and I'm looking over Matt. We're all having fun dancing and Matt just launches this belly full of half-chewed chicken and rice in this projectile vomit, oh man.
Speaker 2:I can't believe we're talking about this, oh we have to On to the dance floor and some people saw it, some people didn't, so people were dancing in this puke and matt. We're like matt dude. You gotta we need to take care of you.
Speaker 1:We gotta get you out of here, bro yeah, hauled me out of there and put, put me in the van, thank goodness. But yeah, I just remember his. I was like, oh no, it's good, it's coming out, man. And then it launches and I remember paul, like mid-launch. He's, like, you know, a couple inches away from it with his face and he's looking at me. He's like dang, matt, did you eat rice?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you could see it.
Speaker 1:I was like hey, I think, oh yeah, it was all over the dance floor splashing on, I remember, guys' shoes as they were dancing. It was, oh yeah. If I was not so inebriated at the time I would have been really horrified. But I think I was so numb that I didn't experience those emotions fully, thank goodness, until after the fact. I felt pretty bad about it.
Speaker 2:But but we still give them a hard time yeah, yeah. So we we still laugh about it.
Speaker 1:I should say yeah, some great times and that was probably not the worst of it, but we'll, we'll leave that. We'll leave that, uh, for another time. Um, what has? What has been your biggest accomplishment in skydiving? Wow?
Speaker 2:Just really being a part of the Golden Knights and being accepted over the years. I was on the team for over 20 years and trying to be myself always, but trying to be a good teammate too, but not not overdoing it, uh, but still still being accepted as as a good teammate. You know, uh, the entire time I've got some you know there's a hundred people I could mention. You know that I was on the team with and other competitors and whatnot that uh, I still uh get you know, talk to or try to talk to, or it's been 10 years and we haven't talked, but we, then we talk again and it's like we were hanging out yesterday, uh, and and being accepted to the, not only the, the golden knight community and but to the, the skydiving community, and I think that, uh, I, uh, I'm accepted. You know as who I am. You know not something For sure man, everybody loves you.
Speaker 1:I mean, what's not to love? Look at you, man, the hair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's great, I don't know there's you know yeah, just trying to be accepted for who I am, like most people in the sport, are you?
Speaker 1:know For sure, yeah, and that's the great thing about this unit is that it's less of a unit and more of a family. You know what I mean. You've got family, brothers and sisters on the team and, yeah, it's an incredible, incredible family to be part of. And, yeah, I consider myself extremely fortunate to have, you know, been there for the better part of you know 25 years and look back on it Such an incredible experience. Talking about some more funny times, though, what are some wardrobe malfunctions that you've had with your uniforms over the years? Do you know something? I don't what happened? Well, I'm just trying to remember. The one that comes to mind is your sole of your boot disintegrating or something at a change of command ceremony or something like that.
Speaker 2:Okay, we were at a very serious Army event at the change of command and my boots did not come back from the boot guy that shines them At the time. You had to shine your boots in time. At the time when you had to shine your boots in time and I was in my, looked up in the attic of the house I was living in it was called the Golden Knight Frat House and several guys that were on the team had, you know, lived there and whatnot and I grabbed a pair of boots. There were a pair of boots up there. I was like man, I got to wear these. This is all I got. I have no option.
Speaker 1:I gotta need these boots for this thing you have to shine those things up a bit.
Speaker 2:They're dusty, yeah, yeah shine them up as best as I could, but they were, uh, they had been in the attic for years and the rubber had basically disintegrated. But I didn't know that until I was walking like we were in a formation, walking through the hangar at the Golden Knights, the airplane hangar, and my boots literally started disintegrating, falling apart giant chunks of black rubber literally just popping off my heel to the point where there was nothing left underneath my feet other than just like the bottom part of the leather of the boots, and I left a trail of black rubber walking across and I'm not, you know uh, it was.
Speaker 1:It was funny for sure and it wasn't there another time. Uh, we were on a trip somewhere else internationally. It was a bra. Maybe Somewhere you had a beret in it. It must have been one of your older berets or something, didn't it rip in half Something like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was trying to stretch it out and get it on my head. It ripped and it turned it out, like Matt said, a wardrobe malfunction. Didn't look so good, but I oh, it's funny for some reason.
Speaker 1:I just maybe it's just the two of those things, but it seemed like he had a few of those. I'm thinking of, uh, maybe eric heinzheimer too, which is, uh, you know, he didn't he have uh something where I think we were in india and he had. He had grabbed some boots from the the boot guy, but they weren't his. I think they gave him the wrong pair of boots or something. They were like size, I don't know, size 14 their biggest boots you've ever seen.
Speaker 1:They were like clown boots he's marched around these clown boots that was goddamn funny yeah, oh man, good stuff um yeah, we're not perfect soldiers.
Speaker 2:We we do what we can with what we have, but we make it work. Oh, how about drinking the homemade liquor in Russia?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, Tell that story.
Speaker 2:That's a great story I think you actually could tell that story. Okay, yeah, well, story, that's a great story. Well, I think you actually could tell that story.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, well, we were. Yeah, then you can interject, you know, at anything any time, but we were. It was for the opening ceremonies in Ryzon, russia, and we had, you know, it's all the formalities. You know we're in Class B military uniform. You know which is like at the time. It was the greens and you know, wearing the short-sleeved shirts, the beret, and you know we thought we were looking cool sunglasses, everything. You know you get your ribbons and medals on your chest and so we're there for the opening ceremonies and the Russians put on a great demonstration, like they put on a full combatives demonstration. They had like flaming two-by-sixes that they're smacking each other over the heads with, and it was like full contact stuff and it was uh pretty incredible.
Speaker 2:But ryzon is like the uh, the military capital in russia and it's like, it's like fort bragg for the russia right and it was, uh, um, it's where they have their.
Speaker 1:we're actually staying in the uh, their version of like West Point Military Academy. But the standard of everything is, it's a bit dated, at least at the time that we were there. So everything's like kind of, you know, straight out of the 1950s. Anyway, we had just finished the opening ceremonies where we were all marching around. They introduce all the countries and, you know, each country is there in their full military dress. This is for the World Military Championships in 2006,. I believe Everybody's in uniform. Well, it's customary after all the formalities are over that some of the other countries want to trade ribbons, medals, that kind of stuff. But usually that happens after the closing ceremony. So I remember some Russians asking. They were like, oh hey, after the closing ceremony. So, uh, I remember some Russians asking they were like, oh hey, can we trade this stuff? I was like, catch me after the, you know, the closing ceremonies.
Speaker 1:But at the time somehow, uh, a few of us got uh mixed up in the fray and all these Russian soldiers brought, brought us down into the basement of their, their barracks, and it was just a few of us and us, and I remember being super worried because we were kind of cut off from the rest of the group. We didn't have any communications with the rest of the group and we were around all these Russian soldiers that were it must have been hundreds of them down at kind of the bottom floor of these barracks they were living in and they brought out this liquid and it was in this like I don't know how many gallon kind of kind of jug that they had, but they poured it out into the, into this porcelain cup and I remember they had one for each of us and it was this fluorescent, green looking, antifreeze looking stuff and I was like, oh my gosh, are we drinking here? This is bad news, man. They're all looking for us, they're speaking in russian, doing some kind of toast. They all seem excited, friendly. But it was still a little unnerving to be down there, just, you know, just a few of us outnumbered, and I was like, man, I'm going to wait, you know. So he's doing this toast. I didn't know what he was saying.
Speaker 1:And then I was watching this Russian guy who's doing the toast and I was like I'm going to wait for him to put this stuff up to his lips. So he put it up to his lips. He took a drink and I remember taking a drink too. Didn't drink that much of it, but I was well buzzed for like four hours after that. Whatever that stuff was, it was pretty good, but yeah, after that. Fortunately we didn't have any jumping activities or anything like that the rest of the day. But yeah, that was a good call. Was that the story that you were thinking?
Speaker 2:about yeah, yeah, that you were thinking about. Yeah, yeah, it was. We were drinking what looked like, um, some type of antifreeze. Yeah, basically homemade russian liquor. Yeah, don't do that, folks. If you get invited to russia, don't drink the green stuff. It's not good man.
Speaker 1:It was actually pretty good. Yeah, it probably wasn't good for you, but it's actually pretty good. Yeah, that whole uh, that whole trip with uh larry getting having to get his uh appendix taken out and, um, you know, being in that russian hospital. We went to this uh. So what happened with?
Speaker 2:larry. Larry miller, our camera guy, was a you know the camera guy can go and have a little bit of fun. You know, he, he, they don't have to worry about doing rw, just got to jump out and keep the formations in frame.
Speaker 2:Well, this guy, larry, is a good guy and he, he went out one night before jumping and we're out there at the drop zone. We come out the next morning and larry's not looking so good. He's pale, yeah, pale, not looking so good. He's pale, yeah, pale, and not looking so good. So I'm like Larry, what have you been up to? And he's like nothing. I was like were you out last night partying? He's like no, no, no, I wasn't. So he ends up going to the medical tent laying down on this thing and he turns from I don't know like fairly flesh tone to to literally white greenish. He's not looking good and he's not feeling good. And I'm like larry, god damn it, you were up drinking last night. You were out there partying. I was like I'm pissed and and we're all giving a hard time about, you know, partying too hard and swearing up and down that it wasn't that that yeah so the russian doctors come in and for a couple minutes they're taking some vital signs of them and feeling around on him.
Speaker 2:And you know we're there with them. We're like you know what's up, what's up. And the russians look at us and they're like this man is going to die. And we're like what and they're like yes, we need to get him to the hospital, he's going to die. And it was no joke. His appendix ruptured and he was going. What's that? Uh?
Speaker 2:septic, septic, yeah, and they literally rushed him to the hospital and we, we, we actually tried to get a medevac for him out with a satellite phone we called. You know we're like we gotta get him out of here and they're like you know, can we get him to uh, germany, to get his you know appendix out?
Speaker 2:and they're like he doesn't have time. He doesn't have time, he doesn't have time. We've got to do it right now. So they took him into the Russian hospital, which was, if you can imagine, an American hospital. Back in the 1950s. That's what this place looked like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the steel gurneys and the glass IV bottles. It looked like a museum, it was crazy bottles and it was just, it looked like a museum, it was crazy. Yep, and I remember too, uh the uh, their conflict with uh chechnya was uh was you know, going on strong and they had a bunch of uh russian soldiers that had come back and they were, these poor dudes, were like packed into these narrow, these long narrow rooms and these you know kind of not so great looking conditions. You know guys coming back from war being treated for whatever, and then they just look like zombies.
Speaker 2:You remember that oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a mess and but they they ended up treating larry great. They freaking, jabbed a giant needle of uh ketamine in him, knocked his ass out, sliced him open and took his appendix out right there in russia and then didn't he have the uh, was it the general's daughter?
Speaker 1:that was like to maintain and watch over him at all times because the russians didn't want any international incident going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they treated him great, they treated him great and and he made it home, they, we took him straight to the hospital. Basically, when it landed on us, terra firma, and you were like, well, they did a pretty good job, you know, other than slicing them open. You know, in the States they do it a little bit differently, but they, uh, they got his appendix out and saved his life, basically.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was incredible. I remember the uh, the commander that I think he was a general, the guy that was in charge of the hospital, um, you know, invited. I remember driving over there, I think that maybe it was the next morning. We had some jumps to do but, uh, it was low overcast so, uh, on the weather hold, we went over there to check on Larry and I remember, uh, at first BK was the one who who went in. Then we went into to check him out, but then the uh. I remember going up and having some drinks at behest of that general. We were like, hey, man, we've got to get back, I don't think we should be doing this because we've got to get back and jump, just in case the weather clears. And then he was like no, no, you're going to have some drinks with us. So then you don't say no and you have a couple shots of vodka with the guy.
Speaker 2:You don't tell a Russian general, no, when you're in Russia, you just drink the vodka and shut up.
Speaker 1:That's true, but what an incredible experience, man. I remember the opening ceremonies there. I remember part of the opening ceremony. We were walking through the streets of Ryzon and it was really cool. We had these old Russian women in their traditional garb and they were just coming up and I guess they hadn't seen any Americans there in quite quite some time, but uh, you know, maybe since world war ii or something like that at that point. But I remember it was a big deal and I remember at that point too, you went over and tried to tell the north korean had a team that were there you talk about that story about going up and trying to, so it's not too many people to have the experience to hang out with North Koreans right as limited exposure there.
Speaker 2:They don't like technically like Americans all that much, but I tried to get some photos with them. They were like, eh, you know, ain't happening, but the barracks we were staying in we were actually waking up in the morning and we were showering with North Koreans. Yeah, we were on the same floor hanging out, they were dragging five gallon buckets of kimchi around yeah, because it was their new year around that time.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I remember them and we were.
Speaker 2:We were showering with the north koreans soldiers, which they actually liked us, but they they couldn't say that publicly because they had handlers and whatnot yeah, well, I remember you going over and trying to during the opening ceremonies.
Speaker 1:You went over when we were just all standing around in between the, the official, you know type of events and you went over and tried to talk to them, but I think the handler chased you off right, yeah, I was like no no, it's not happening.
Speaker 1:Well, the only time that we didn't see the handler was in the bathrooms, and I think at first it was. It's kind of odd because we're in these open bay bathrooms and we've got all kinds of different nationalities that are in there. So you see everybody's, you know bathing habits or lack thereof, and um, but I remember it seemed like everybody starts to develop their routines, right. So you go kind of go to the same ish. You know sink, you know their lines. On the other side there wasn't of the divider. There's another row of sinks but there wasn't any, like you know, mirrors up or anything like that. So you're just kind of, you know, awkwardly looking across at you know the other folks? Well, I introduced myself. I was like hey, you know, my name is Matt and it was these two North Korean guys, because I I looked around, I was like this is really weird, but this is the only place where I haven't seen the handler with them.
Speaker 1:So I took the opportunity to introduce myself and, uh, they kind of looked at each other and they looked at me and they weren't sure what to make of me and I was like friend, you know cause, uh, in the military there at SISM, the um, the military, uh, world championships, the slogan is friendship through sport. So, you know, I took that seriously and I was trying to, you know, trying to try to make friends and, um, you know, so, once I said friend, they they looked at it. They said friend. I said yeah, friend, and they seemed surprised at that but then they, you know, started smiling.
Speaker 1:They were like I'm Jim and I'm Jim and you know, so, kind of started up in what, uh, with the language barrier that we had, we tried to start up a conversation and, yeah, it was just an incredible experience to be able to interact with all those different nationalities in that setting. It was just man, it was so cool. I remember at one point when I was trying to get a workout, there's a pull-up bar at the end of the hall and I remember this Russian soldier coming down and he was like come with me, come with me, my friend, and he took me into this closet and it was all these old, rusty kettlebells and I was like man, this is, this is OG, you know.
Speaker 1:Russian kettlebell stuff right here. It was so awesome. That was a really really cool trip, yeah, that was great.
Speaker 1:I've always found it perplexing how you're such an incredible skydiver. You hardly ever brain locked or forgot the next formation and you're brilliant and meticulous and your focus and business and real estate. But your propensity for forgetting both everyday items and sometimes mission critical and life-saving equipment is mind blowing, sometimes maddening, but, uh, most of the time strangely, uh, hilarious in hindsight. And I don't bring this up to embarrass you, I only bring it up because it's funny as shit. Can you tell the story of forgetting your parachute equipment and not realizing it until we were on a 30-minute call for the first jump from a major competition?
Speaker 2:Which one?
Speaker 1:Nationals in 2015 or 2017?.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, in Eloy, I think it would have been 2015. I did forget my parachute, the parachute I needed right to jump with in my hotel. And we're in DeLand and I think it was like the last day of four-way, yeah, and we're out the drop zone. We're like, you know, we do a dirt dive and whatnot. I'm like grab my stuff. I'm like shit, where's my rig, you know? And and I was like god damn it.
Speaker 2:So I I had some t-shirts at the time that we would golden knight t-shirts that we would sell, and I had those in a black bag. So when I left the hotel room in the morning, I grabbed the pair, the t-shirts, but not the my, my parachute. So I left that back and we were on like a 30 minute call and I had to get it back to. I had to. I had to get to to casa gran, to the best western, to get my rig and get back in like really quick fashion and I hauled ass to the point where I was like running state troopers again what did you say before you left?
Speaker 1:you said before you left the drop zone, you said something I don't know what you're like, uh I think it was something the effect of either I'm going to be arrested or I'll, or I'll be back, you know, with my gear ready to go for this call that's true, yeah, yeah, I was either going to be in jail for speeding or on round one or around whatever. Yeah, yeah, maybe it was round one, I think it was around one. Yeah, because tensions were high.
Speaker 2:Uh, like I remember, you know some people not being I did I was literally hauling ass back to casa gran from eloy and I took a couple wrong turns. I couldn't believe it. I was like follow, and I've been. I've done that route a million times and I was took thought I was going to go faster one way and I was going well over the speed limit to get my parachute and get back to be on round one.
Speaker 1:But you made it back and, from what I can remember, it was a good jump. Yeah, it was a good jump. And man, what are some other? Oh, there was one time where, I think, we were on the bus and we were heading out to some international competition. We were going to be going out of Charlotte but we were on the big Golden Knight Swift bus and I think, was it, I think Derek Coleman was driving and we were all on, you know, ready to go on this trip, and you're like dude, dude, I forgot my jumpsuit at first.
Speaker 2:That's right. Yeah, I forgot my jumpsuit. It was hanging at the at the golden night team room. It was hanging there cause it was wet, cause I washed it or something, and I forgot it. And I was like you know, if you don't, you ain't got to have your jumpsuit, your jumpsuit right to perform. And I forgot it. And it's an ongoing story. But yeah, I do have a way of forgetting important things, like some important things.
Speaker 1:Oh man, but it's part of your charm and that's why I bring it up. I don't do it to embarrass you just because it's funny as hell of your charm. It's, and that's why I bring it up. I don't do it to embarrass you, just because it's funny as hell. Um, you've done some incredible things in your skydiving career, from being a demonstrator to being a world-class competitor, to serving as a tandem and accelerated free fall instructor. What aspect of your skydiving career has given you the biggest sense of pride and fulfillment?
Speaker 2:you know what really just being uh, being accepted and being friends with guys that have especially been on the team on the Golden Knights and the other skydiving, you know, outside of the Golden Knights, the skydiving community, outside of the golden Knights, the skydiving community, I feel like I've been uh accepted, you know, as as just a regular guy that, uh, you know, is there to, to, to perform and compete and represent the army.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and uh in general, you know nothing specifically. Uh, I just uh In general, you know nothing specifically, I just you know.
Speaker 1:yeah that's it really. It is man, it is such a privilege to have been a part of that team, that organization, that family Yep, there's nothing like it. And in being a part of that, fortunately in 2009 and 2010, we got the opportunity to deploy to Iraq together for a few months. We were separated into different duty assignments once we got into country, can you describe what the experience was like over there for you.
Speaker 2:So we got divided up and I was with Eric Heinzheimer and we were helping to facilitate some training with the 10th Special Forces Group and got to work with them and be part of them. You know, comical in a way, because you know it wasn't our main gig in the army. And we, we, you know, did we, we tried to do everything we could to to fit in with the regular army and do what they were doing. And uh, you know, we, we uh, weren't perfect at it, but we ended up making it work out all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what are some highlights of that experience? You were staying with Eric, right?
Speaker 2:Weren't you guys staying in the same tube? I guess the biggest highlight was our job was to help. We would daily help the Iraqi police force that they were building at the time, technically post-war get on and off what was called BIOP, which was Baghdad International Airport, and we would assist them to come on post and off post. And you know, you never knew about these guys, cause it was, it was a strange uh environment at that point in time, cause you never knew if they liked you or they were just wanted to fucking kill you.
Speaker 1:Different factions, different loyalties, that kind of stuff. Yeah Well, they're Iraqis, so you know and uh.
Speaker 2:So you know, and you know we would meet them at one of the main gates at the base and then escort them on to where they were going. And one group we brought on had a. Basically, they brought on some anti-tank mines and we did not know that. You know, eric and I did not know that and they were like whoa, you know what's going on. They found some anti-tank mines on these guys and we're like you know, we're not looking through their vehicles. They drove their own vehicles on.
Speaker 1:You know, they had their own convoy on and we're just escorting them, and those weren't part of your duties were to inspect for that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:Right, we were just there to meet him at the front, at the gate and and escort them on to the, the, the small area that we were working on. And uh, they, they were, they brought on some stuff they shouldn't have been bringing onto the post, which was tech, you know, us, us, environment, and uh, and they gave us a hard time about that, and they were like, oh, you know, what are you doing here? And we're like, hey, we're just doing what we're told. So, um, yeah, that was interesting any other.
Speaker 1:Uh, like you know, scary kind of moments, no, not really you've got, yeah, we, we've got.
Speaker 2:We got rockets, uh, on new year's and matt saw one of those- yeah, yeah, that was crazy.
Speaker 1:I'll just go over that briefly. I was uh in, it was new year's eve and I was working out with the uh, the firefighters at baghdad international airport and, um, you know, just doing a CrossFit workout in there. They had a pretty good gym in the fire station and, yeah, we got incoming rockets and mortars and I remember the Phalanx weapons system going on. That was positioned right alongside the fire station. I remember that thing ripping off and everybody just instinctively crouching down. The fire station had a corrugated metal roof and I remember hearing the shell casings hitting the top of the roof. So we all beelined it for the bunker, except for Jude Piles, I think.
Speaker 1:She started running toward this some rounds or hitting the palm trees, and a couple of them came in contact with the ground, maybe some other vehicles around there.
Speaker 1:There was an mp car that was driving down the road that you know just ran into a ditch and I remember watching the mp get out and you know like run for cover from there and it was pretty chaotic there for a few minutes.
Speaker 1:But yeah, that was my only uh other than that and a few other times where we're like in the chow hall and you know incoming, you know kind of mortared rockets, you know, as I think it was a relatively regular occurrence around there. But uh, yeah, there's some good, good times and it was uh, it was great to have that, that opportunity to be able to go over there, and uh, you know, let uh, let some of the guys that were over there actively, you know, come home, spend a little time with their families over the Christmas holidays that year. But yeah, man, it was just a uh incredible time. It kind of reminded me of uh, when you watch that series band of brothers and they're up at the eagle's nest and that kind of stuff when we were at in baghdad and you know getting to go around and you know kind of tour around the uh saddam's palaces there and stuff. That's kind of what it reminded me of had that same kind of feel to it. I don't know if it was like that for you as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was strange just to be, you know, in that environment, you know, being on the team and then not really training technically. Yeah, we weren't super qualified to be over there in that environment, for sure. Qualified to be over there in that environment, for sure, even though you know, we were supposed to be soldiers all the time.
Speaker 1:We were focused primarily on, you know, skydiving and winning skydiving competitions. So whenever there, we did a brief train up and, yeah, it was. It was. It was an experience for sure. Now I'd like to to go into your business career, but you've owned several businesses over the years, including while you're on active duty in the army. What are a few businesses which stand out in your mind and what are some of the lessons you learned from them? Like, uh, one of the ones that stands out in my mind is that you had, uh, it was a build-a-bear and it was during you were running this thing while we were on the team and you know, it's just amazing that you had that much energy to be, to run a business and have it be that successful.
Speaker 2:But if you can talk to someone about that, that would be great, yeah well, being stationed at Fort Bragg permanently, you have the opportunity to maybe do things in your spare time and I did a business in the mall here in Fayetteville that worked out and it was basically a teddy bear business. I know, right Like teddy bears, but I started a family with my wife at the time and I was thinking it would be a good idea for her to have a job while she was there. So I kind of started that for her and then ended up, uh, it worked out pretty good. You know she, she did a good job running it. And then, um, then I got in the real estate business and, uh, here at Fort Brat you know Fayetteville area and start buying properties, um, at pretty good price. So it ended up working out well and, uh, I uh hopefully continue to keep it going.
Speaker 1:The real estate business, yeah, man, it's just just. It's always been amazing to me how you have that, that energy and you're able to to focus that energy not only in being like a world-class. You know professional skydiver, but also you know operating in high level. You know local business between not only real estate and having several properties there, but also businesses like you know. Now you own a Primo pizza in the mall and you've had several other businesses like that. If you can talk about some of those, just you know, kind of go down the list of what you've done over the years and what are the challenges that you've found in trying to run businesses while you've been on the parachute team.
Speaker 2:Well, so the the real estate business came about. You know, I got divorced in 2010 and found myself you know, the priority was always jumping and being a part of the Golden Knights and excelling. I got divorced, I found some time, you know, free time on my hands and uh ended up. You know I was always interested in the real estate business, so I ended up buying, starting to buy, properties and, uh, turning them in. I was actually the first Airbnb in Fayetteville oh, really have the time to do it, you know, but it was. It was always uh difficult to find the time to do it, but you know, I, instead of instead of uh, during that time being divorced and having time on my hands, you know, with, with kids and juggling kids and whatnot, I was able to, you know, start a little bit of real estate business on the side.
Speaker 1:So that's really cool. Uh, why are you so passionate about being a business owner? What drives you in that pursuit?
Speaker 2:Probably from the time I was growing up. Just, you know uh filling my time with something uh substantial. You know uh making uh finding value in my time, I guess yeah, yeah, that's a.
Speaker 1:That's a great way to great way to put it, and you know you had a family too, so I'd imagine that, uh, you know you was any of that, was any of your motivation tied to trying to provide a better life for you know you and the family, or was it?
Speaker 2:oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, like try to give my kids something maybe that I didn't have at the time nice, yeah, and they had a uh.
Speaker 1:You know they had a a good upbringing and and you know in those kind of uh terms and you know they both uh turned out great. You know, so far it's cool to see.
Speaker 2:You know you've had them both in the tunnel and doing jumps and stuff, right yeah, yeah, they bet both, uh tunnel tunnel fanatics and uh, they both made jumps and it, ironically, I'm like my son, you know, he's 21 now. He's made two tantrums and he's like hey dad, I want to learn how to jump and I'm scared, scared to death.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I'm letting him go out and I'm scared about it. You know, thinking of what my parents went through, they probably weren't even thinking about me jumping, but you know I'm like shit if I let my son start learning how to jump. You know there's a million things that can kill you in this sport and you know I worry a little bit about it. But I'm like you know, if you want to do it, go for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel the same way about Lauren, like she's expressed some interest too and she's, you know, when I've gotten her in the tunnel she's doing great. But I worry about that too, for sure I remember my dad taking me out to first started, started jumping out of rayford, um, he took me out to the, to the pk's monument there on the drop zone and he was like see this, read that. And he waited and he was once I get done reading it, you know kind of the gravity sunk in. He was like you do that to me, I'll fucking kill you. Yeah, yeah, so I can understand that for sure you own, or have owned, businesses in food service, real estate and retail. Do you prefer one type of business over the other? Does each scratch a different type of itch in day-to-day management, or are they all pretty much the same?
Speaker 2:Pretty much the same you know, making it work and making it make money in the end.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is that? Is that your primary motivation, or you do you because with a different? I'm just curious as to the different types of businesses that you own. What's your motivation, for you know, having the different ones?
Speaker 2:Is it just the money or is it? Well, the key to trying to make money is just look for opportunity. You know, fill a void. Fill a void in in um whatever environment you're talking about. And, uh, you know, I've just kind of always been open to ideas and say, oh okay, so matt's talking. The the food service I bought. A pizza business has been in Fayetteville for um 30 years and I ended up buying buying a pizza business that the guy retired, that owned it, and I uh took that over and have made that profitable. And uh, the real estate, just, you know, everybody should own some real estate and I I was able to grow grow
Speaker 1:one, one piece of real estate to multiple, just by, uh, figuring out, you know the best way to do it um, yeah, I remember, uh, primo pizza, you know from the time that I got here in in the Mall in Fayetteville. So, yeah, if you're out there listening, you're ever in Fayetteville, go by Cross Creek Mall to Primo Pizza and it's the best pizza in town, folks, best pizza in town, as Kurt would say. And so we just had Hell Week at Paraclete, xp, skyventure, wind Tunnel last week, and then it culminated with the Indoor Nationals and you provided a bunch of pizza for that right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Any major event at the tunnel. I try to hook the tunnel up with some pizzas, fresh pizza.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fresh pizza folks. Man, it's great because not only are we getting this awesome pizza, but we get to see you and saying hi to everybody at the competition and bringing the positive vibes. It's great. When making the decision to buy or start a business, how much emphasis do you put on market research as opposed to your gut feeling prior to pulling the trigger? As opposed to your gut feeling prior to pulling the trigger, like I guess I'm asking, is your final decision based primarily on passion and positivity, or is it mostly numbers-based?
Speaker 2:Numbers-based. Yeah, always, you know it's got to be profitable.
Speaker 1:Yeah. In the end it's got to create some profit. And you do all the market research. Probably no market research. Oh really, I just go for it. There's just kind of a gut feeling for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look for a void, look for an opportunity and then dig in. That's interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as long as I've been around you, I've never been able to. We never really sat down, I've never been able to ask you these kinds of questions. So this is this is cool for me to be able to, you know, hear this from you, and you talked about how you got into real estate already. What are three primary action steps that you would give to someone who wants to start a business?
Speaker 2:Whoa, wow Again. Just, you know, fill a need that is not yet met. I suppose you know, or I know that it was could be successful at the. You know the prior owner kind of had given up on it and I knew I could make it successful. So I just kind of take my overall view on things in terms of you know, can I make, can, can I make this successful. And you know, can I make, can I, can I make this successful? And you know, work it out and and kind of go for it. You know it's not always a hundred percent that when I lean into something that it's going to work, but you know I I give it a try.
Speaker 1:Do you usually have all the uh, the capital um necessary to open a business? It's available at hand. Or do you have to seek, or have you had to seek out, investors?
Speaker 2:oh yeah, ironically, yeah, in terms of I'll say this right now solly bk, mikey la roche, all teammates or guys I've competed against have all helped me financially like, uh, come up with a capital. You know, I didn't always have the capital you know. But I got guys that trust in me and know that, uh, I will uh pay them back. Basically, Right, yeah, and it's, it's worked out great.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. That's just another uh way of how, the, how the you know, the, the team network and family is just so incredible. You know, in so many regards. I know I've had you here for a long time and we're we're getting ready to wrap this up. But one of the things I wanted to talk about was the hurricane disaster response in Western North Carolina. Back in October, we both had the unbelievable opportunity to crew chief a civilian version of the UH-60 Blackhawk in support of XP services and Samaritan's Purse disaster relief efforts in western North Carolina following Hurricane Helene. It was such an unexpected and incredible opportunity that, thinking back to it, it's sometimes hard to believe that it happened, that it happened. Can you share the story from your perspective about the experience with us, starting with your attempts to help as an individual, prior to getting the call from our friend and former teammate, Kerry Mills?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so ironically, I you know, the hurricane was terrible. People were in desperate need of everything the world meet was going on in North Carolina at the time and I was like really wanting to go down there and and and cheer and and and and be part of that. But at the same time I uh decided, I was like you know what? I'm going to run? I'm going to fill up my truck with some, some beer and some drinks and some whatnot. I literally filled up the the uh back of my pickup truck with stuff and ran it, uh made a run to uh, uh, western North Carolina to just just be part of the program and be part of of helping out. And as I was on my way, I was making some calls and I I called uh Carrie Mills, who was, uh, I was on the team with and uh, ironically he was like you won't believe this.
Speaker 2:I'm getting ready to bring a Blackhawk over and, uh, help out with with with the program. And uh, so I, I did my run with, with, with a truckload of stuff, and got back and and Kerry, and Kerry said, no, it's not gonna happen. And then the next morning I woke up I was at home. He's like, hey, it's, it's gonna happen, I'm gonna be with the. Uh, I'm, I'm bringing, we're bringing two Black Hawks down and we're going to be making runs. So I'm like, hey, count me in.
Speaker 2:And then, ironically, jen Davidson was going to be part of that because she was going to be a co-pilot in the Blackhawk, and then Matt was involved, and then I was involved as well. And then we all met and it was great. It was great to be there with multiple Golden Knights, you know, being part of the rescue operation. The people were in dire straits really and we got to fly multiple loads of blackhawk equipment, stuff, supplies and whatnot to uh parts of uh of north carolina that were totally cut off and and matt was there and jen was flying and and carrie and it was. It was a great opportunity. It felt great to be part of the bigger solution to getting people aid to you know unbelievable circumstances.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was, man. It was just so incredible, yeah. So Jen and I were down in Beaufort and we'd just gotten done with a world meet and we had spent some time with my mom. I had my mom and stepdad, tim, and my Aunt, lois and her husband, jim, and then later I had my aunt and uncle, dave and Lori. So it was just so cool after the world meet, winning the world meet and then spending some time with them down there going out to the lighthouse, it was just an incredible trip.
Speaker 1:And then the morning, uh, one of the following mornings, jen and I are getting ready to head back home and, uh, we're sitting at this uh cafe, uh, you know, like a breakfast spot in, uh, in Beaufort, north Carolina, and she gets this phone call and it's Carrie Mills and I hear some of the stuff she's saying. She gets off the phone. She was like Matt got this incredible opportunity to, you know to go out, you know to fly one of the Blackhawks, western North Carolina, with Carrie and you know, and Kurt's going to be there and Carrie's daughter, you know, is going to be there, you know, working crew on the bird, and I felt left out. So, uh, she asked Carrie if I could come along. He was like, yeah, you know, bring, bring him along. So, yeah, I got to go out there and uh and crew, but it was just such an incredible experience, um, you know, watching Jen fly, like I'd I'd never seen her fly. She got her, uh, uh, you know, graduated from uh military flight school flying UH-60 Blackhawks. Uh, you know, for the uh, for the army reserves. But yeah, she went to flight school and just, she graduated, you know, sometime last year.
Speaker 1:And you know now, seeing her, you know, sitting in the pilots, I remember we were taking off and I was on the headset and I expected Kerry to do most of the flying. But you know, I was just impressed because he was like, all right, it's your bird, and she did, you know, a lot of the flying and I was just so impressed. But at the time, just to kind of set the stage, I didn't realize what the scope of operations was. So I didn't realize what Samaritan's Purse really was and it was an organization, charitable organization, that's attached to the Graham family and their church. So it's funded by a lot of donations of the great people that are in the congregation and outside as well, and, I think, a good portion of money was donated by the Trump family to help out.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, once we got there, just seeing the scope of the operations and how smooth it was, from the volunteers that were working to, you know, load up the pallets and load the aircraft to the fueling of the aircraft, to, you know watching the trucks come in with all the supplies, it was just this steady stream. And and, uh, general Cody was out there who was, uh, you know, flying his own, uh, little bird, um, you know, doing some deliveries as well, and it was just incredible to you know see that outpouring of support and be part of that organization. Then we got to meet Donald Trump Jr, who came down to you know check out, I guess, to you know, just, you know see what the operations were all about, that they were contributing to, and just seeing them there and their support and seeing Edward Graham out there, man, it was just, it seemed unbelievable to be in that Blackhawk with you guys and you know, flying those supply missions and, man, yeah, what an incredible time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was great. It was great to be part of that, for sure.
Speaker 1:Well, kurt, I appreciate you being here, brother it's. You know it's been a long time coming and you know you're one of my closest friends. I love you like a brother and you know, appreciate all the experiences that we've had and everything that you've done for me over the years. And, yeah, I can't thank you enough, man.
Speaker 2:Hey look, I feel honored to even want to be uh interviewed for this. Well you're.
Speaker 1:You're a great champion and you're one of the guys that, uh, that I looked up to as far as your you know, for, for all the funny stuff that we talked about, um, you know, ultimately and at your core, you were, you're a true professional. You're, when it came down to doing the job, there was nobody that did it quite like you. You know, like your key speed with stuff you're, uh, um, you know how, how you would visualize so much that you hardly ever, brain locked, like your dedication was, was unmatched and you definitely set the standard there and, uh, you know. So, yeah, if anybody deserves to be on this podcast, it's you, man, man.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks, I appreciate that All right brother. Yeah, thank you everybody. If you're still listening, I'll be surprised. But yeah, love you all. And if you're into sport and you're going for it and you don't think you got it, just keep your head down and keep on going for it. You don't think you got it? Just keep your head down and keep on going for it, because, trust me, I didn't think I had it, but I found it and it's there if you really want to, thank you.
